537 - Breaking the Cycle: Releasing the Grip of Control
How do we control our partners?
Control can look like a lot of different ways. Some possible ways we might control another person, particularly a partner, could be:
Asking where they are or who they have hung out with that day. Trying to see what their schedule is so that you feel more secure and in the know.
Wanting to spend all of your time with that person and then feeling hurt if they have other things going on or other people to see.
Making fun of a partner or jabbing them in ways that might hurt them or put them down (even if it is done in jest).
Threatening to leave the relationship or giving ultimatums, i.e. saying things like, “my ideal relationship looks like ____.”
Keeping score on the relationship. Trying to determine the inherent “worth” of each of the things that you do for the relationship.
Pushing your partner too hard or doubting that they can do something they put their mind to.
Using “boundaries” to try to change a partner’s behavior or make sure that they don’t engage in things that you feel might harm the relationship.
Wanting aspects of the relationship to look “perfect” because one might see the relationship as a reflection of themself.
In non-monogamous relationships, exercising things like veto power, trying to put parameters on a partner’s time, having rules like OPP or OVP, or choosing to only date together rather than allowing each partner to enjoy relationships outside of the primary one.
Are you curious about how controlling you might be? Take this quiz to see if you have a propensity for control. It may help you approach your relationships differently!
Why do we feel like we need control?
There are a whole host of reasons why someone might want to control their environment or their partner. Some possible reasons could be:
They have poor self esteem and/or are deeply insecure. This insecurity might cause them to want to put their partner or others around them down so that they feel like they have more personal validation and in turn raise themselves up.
They have difficulty with emotional vulnerability. They might hold their partners at arms length and make excuses to keep emotional distance from their partner. Deep down they fear rejection.
They have unresolved trauma from their past or their family of origin. This can cause them to be overly sensitive and not be able to handle criticism or complaints well.
If they grew up with little order or predictability in their life, they may try to create this within their relationship by controlling their partner’s actions, decisions, and who they spend their time with.
They might be worried about their autonomy or sense of self being diminished and in turn try to restrict the independence of their partner.
They might have poor communication skills which results in gaslighting behavior or resorting to things like shouting or verbally berating their partner when in the midst of heated conflict.
Behavioral control: rules and structure for children as they grow and develop.
Psychological control: a specific way of trying to gain control, like refusing to look at your child if they've upset you, reminding them of all the things you've done for them, telling them how much it hurts you when they don't do what you want, etc.
This study found that teenagers whose parents exerted more psychological control (as opposed to behavioral control) had less supportive relationships later in life, were liked less by peers, and struggled approaching challenging social situations in a nuanced way.
Letting go
If you find yourself being too controlling of a partner, there are ways to exercise the skill of releasing some of the control you have. As adults, it’s important to recognize that the only thing we truly have control over is our own behavior, and we are only responsible for ourselves, and our own social, physical, emotional, and financial wellbeing.
Desire for control often comes from pain from our past, and working through trauma can help us relinquish our need to control others. Working with a therapist or coach is a good way to do this, but there are also some exercises that can be done on one’s own that can help:
Journaling:
Write about a recent interaction where you felt the need to control your partner. What happened, and how did you react?
How do these behaviors make you feel afterward? How do you think they make your partner feel?
Dig deeper into the emotions behind the desire to control. Are you feeling insecure, anxious, or fearful? Write about these feelings.
Are there past experiences or patterns that might be contributing to these emotions?
Reflect on how these control tendencies impact your relationship overall. What are you gaining, and what might you be losing?
Additionally, write down answers to these questions:
What things can I control in my life?
What things can I not control in my life/should not try to control?
After the above exercise, write out the following:
Describe what a healthy, balanced relationship looks like for you. What qualities and behaviors are present?
List two or three actionable steps you can take to release the need for control. Consider how you can turn controlling impulses into supportive actions.
Have your partner complete the section on what a healthy and balanced relationship would look like to them. Exchange your answers with them and reflect with your partner on how you can achieve those goals.
Write a commitment to having an open conversation with your partner about your reflections and intentions for change. Use your best tools for honest and thoughtful communication from your Multiamory toolkit.
Just like in RADAR or in the YourSELF boundaries exercise, revisit your entries periodically to track your progress and adjust your actions as necessary.
When communicating with partners in a more vulnerable and honest way, remember our communication tips and tools:
The Triforce of Communication to express what it is that each of you want and need in that moment.
HALT if the discussion gets too heated and you need to take a pause.
NVC or Clean Talk as a model of how to speak to a partner through observations about what happened, expressing personal feelings, stating what you need from your partner, and making a request of your partner.
Using something like a Plutchik wheel to help describe to your partner what your feelings are if you are having a difficult time attaching words to your feelings.
Repair attempts are any statement or action that prevents negativity from escalating out of control, help get the conversation back on track, and start reestablishing the connection between you and your partner.
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we're talking again about control and power in relationships. This week, we are coming at it from the perspective of the partner who wants to have more control or more power in the relationship, and might be taking that too far. Last week, we talked about this from the other side. I definitely recommend listening to both of these because I think it's important to get an understanding of what's going on on both sides in order to best facilitate our relationships. In this one, we're focusing on the perspective of the person who is trying to control.
There are a variety of reasons why someone might want to another individual. Today, we're going to look at what some of those reasons are, what the science says about it, and how you can move away from that controlling behavior to a more loving and respectful relationship. If you're interested in learning about our fundamental communication tools that we reference on this show, check out our book, Multiamory: Essential Tools for Modern Relationships. It covers our most-used communication tools for all types of relationships. You can find links to buy it in print and audiobook format at multiamory.com/book.
Emily: From the last episode, we discussed a lot of the ways in which our partners might exhibit controlling behaviors over us. I want the two of you to maybe think back to a time in which perhaps you were the one who wanted to control your partner, maybe their actions, or their behaviors, their decisions, something along those lines, even if it was small, subtle ways. Can you recall a time in which perhaps you did this?
Dedeker: This is really hard to identify because I think when it's yourself doing it, at least the way my brain works, it's very easy to have all kinds of justifications-
Emily: To rationalize it. Yes.
Dedeker: -for it, right? Yes, because they were about to go do something completely ridiculous. I had to save them from themselves. Of course, I've never done the thing of trying to control how a partner dresses or stuff like that, but I don't know, I might be judgy about what they're spending their money on in a particular moment or something like that. Is that me directly trying to control what they're spending their money on? I don't think so, but it's somewhere in that spectrum. We're just a little fuzzy.
Jase: Thinking back, I think, if anything, an area where I may have fallen into the controlling category would be in relationships where I just want more of their time. Trying to get more of that, even if it seemed like they were less interested in that or pulling back or something. I can't think of specific examples, but that feels like an area where I could see myself, yes, in the past, having gone there of, like, "I want to see them. I want to hold on to this relationship. I want to pursue this relationship in a way that then could feel like, 'Oh, gosh. I'm trying to monopolize all their time.'" Even if, in my mind, that wasn't what I was going for.
Dedejer: I've definitely done that one where, again, here comes the justification that I can think of a relationship where, yes, I wanted more of their time. I didn't feel like I could trust this person to be proactive in scheduling with me. I felt this constant need to always be all up in their calendar several weeks out, and making sure that we had all this time together, and also having a sense of, if I don't get the time, they're going to go spend it with somebody else, or they're not going to spend it with me or whatever. Right? I think that would probably fall in that spectrum of trying to control, at least, somebody's time to a certain extent.
Emily: Yes. Most recently, with a partner that I'm dating now, that we're doing more non-monogamous things, like, sometimes he will go to sleep with someone. Sometimes I might go to a party or something that results in me sleeping with someone, but I do often have this tendency to be, like, "Oh, what are you doing tonight?" Sometimes I wonder if asking the question at all is a controlling behavior. Not that I'm trying to tell him not to do something, but it's almost to control how much I know about a situation in order to not have these feelings of, "Oh, god, I have no idea what's going on."
My mind is thinking, "Oh, goodness. What is he out doing? Who is he out having an experience with?" Then feeling really insecure about it. That's almost me trying to control the situation internally by asking him, "What is it that you're doing tonight?" Or "Do you have plans? Are you going somewhere?"
Dedeker: Okay. The keeping tabs thing.
Emily: A little bit, yes. I wonder sometimes. I'm, like, "Am I doing this for the right reasons? Am I doing it just because I feel insecure about the situation?" I think that that can also fall on a spectrum of being just curious or, "Oh, I want to know what you're doing, so that I have an understanding of that at all times."
Jase: Yes, for sure. I think that's a good example of one where the same question of asking, depending on what is the history within your relationship, of then how you react to the answer to that question, can change whether that feels like, "I just want to know," or, so that I can say, "Go get them, Tiger." Or is it, "I want to know because I'm trying to keep tabs on you, and because I want to control you"? I think that can also be affected by their past experiences with that. That, for you, it might not be, but if they've had a history of people really trying to keep tabs on every little thing they do, that can come across as controlling, even if that's not what you're going for.
Emily: Sure. That's a good point.
Jase: Yes. That's an interesting one, too, because it definitely is in that area where the behavior itself isn't necessarily the problem, but it could be, depending on the circumstances around it.
Emily: I do think outside of relationships that are romantic, we might try to control other things in our life as well. We might be a little bit of a control freak in maybe our work life or with friends and family, or just outward situations in general, how our house looks, for example, just how perfect or perfectionistic our outside world needs to be in order for us to function well. I think that all of us have probably exhibited some control freak tendencies at times. I do want to give a little bit of validation to people who feel like, "Yes, I definitely have a tendency to want to control more things in my life."
Dedeker I feel like I'm constantly telling people that I'm not pleasant to live with. Jase can give the review because he's the one who lives with me right now. I really don't think I'm the best roommate.
Emily: Really?
Dedeker: Yes, because I really want control of my living space, very much so, and control of the cleanliness, and the organization of it.
Emily: Interesting.
Dedeker: Jase, Jason Lindgren, your thoughts?
Jase: Yes, I think that we have found a good compromise on that, but, yes, sometimes it's been a little bit of a point of contention of just when there's differences in what counts as messy versus what counts as not, or what-- not even mess exactly, but where things should be stored or how put away certain things should be. I think that we've, at least, been very good about proactively communicating about that. For the most part, I think I'm someone who's also willing to compromise.
Stand up for what I think too and have the discussion, where I think if I were someone who were less like that, it felt more like, this is an area where I don't feel like I have any leg to stand on here, then, yes, I could see getting pushed around more in that regard.
Emily: I see. Yes, for sure. To start off here, I wanted to just see if we have a tendency towards more controlling behavior in general, or if we're not particularly controlling in most aspects of our life. This is from a quiz on Psychology Today called, How Controlling Are You? We all took this quiz. I want us to discuss the results, and just if we agree with the result that we got, and what we thought of the quiz in general. I will say that there's a study that has a scale for control that is a much longer quiz that I just could not find at all-
Dedeker: Oh.
Emily: -and so I had to--
Jase: Yes, that's hard sometimes.
Emily: I had to resort to finding a Psychology Today Quiz, and this one, at least, was a little bit longer than some of the ones that were only about five questions. I'm, like, "Well, that's not going to tell us much." I decided upon this one. You can look it up and take it yourself if you are interested. What did you two find?
Dedeker: First of all, the thing I was going to say is, this seems like it could be a quiz that might be more accurate/more horrifying if you gave it to somebody else to fill out about you.
Emily: Oh.
Dedeker: Rather than-
Jase: Oh.
Dedeker: -evaluating yourself.
Emily: Awkward.
Dedeker: Yes, super awkward.
Emily: That's a really good point.
Dedeker: Also intriguing because there are questions like, "I micromanage other people's activities," and it's hard for me to evaluate. Sure. I know sometimes I can, but also sometimes I don't. I don't know. I guess I'm in the middle. I think it's very different if someone else has a particular impression of you-
Emily: Sure.
Dedeker: -and you micromanage somebody else's activities or not.
Jase: That actually would be really interesting. Now I feel like we should all go do that for each other, but-
Emily: Oh, gosh. Yes.
Jase: -maybe we'll do that off-air in case the results are too shocking.
Emily: Actually, I do feel like those results would skew more in one direction or another, probably.
Dedeker: You mean more towards the extremes?
Emily: Yes, maybe.
Jase: Oh, I see.
Emily: I don't know. Although I'm not sure what you all got. Mine was right in the middle. I got a 46 out of 100.
Dedeker: Out of 100?
Jase: I'm at 57, so I'm also right in the middle.
Emily: Yes. Mine was skewed a little bit on the less controlling side, even though I felt like some of them, I was, like, "Oh, god, is this going to put me in the really controlling part?"
Jase: I had that same fear. Like, whether you would go along with something or whether you would need to state your disagreement about someone's decision. It depends if their decision was stupid or not. It's hard to put in for yourself in a neutral mindset of across all your experiences, but that's why I do think it'd be interesting to have someone else fill it out.
Emily: Yes. One of the questions was something like, "I want people to follow the directions that I gave them." I'm, like, "Yes, I do. Especially in a work situation, why is that a problem?"
Jase: Right. I'm, like, "Am I their boss, or is this just random people?"
Emily: Exactly.
Jase: Depends on the context a little bit, I guess.
Dedeker: The one I was scared of is question nine, "I sometimes put people down when they get too big for their boots."
Emily: Oh, boy.
Dedeker: I love doing that. I love doing that because I hate when people have grown out of their footwear.
Emily: No, there you go.
Dedeker: They need to be brought down a peg. No, actually, that's a part of myself I really don't like.
Jase: Oh, really?
Dedeker: It still sticks around as-- Yes, I do often have a compulsion to take people down a peg if I feel like their peg is just a little too peggy.
Jase: I get that sometimes, but again, it's the balance of, like, is this in an appropriate way, or is it too far?
Dedeker: Well, no surprise, I have the highest controlling score of the three of us. I got a 60. Not ridiculous. It still puts me--
Jase: That's still middling.
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: The 37 to 63 range counts as the middle of the bell curve. Only three points away from controlling, though. I think if I try hard enough--
Emily: I can go get there.
Jase: On a good day.
Dedeker: I could get there.
Jase: On a good day, you could get there.
Dedeker: If one of you filled it out, I might end up-
Emily: You might go a little bit more.
Dedeker: -on that end of the bell curve.
Jase: Right.
Emily: I figured you'd be the highest, but I think that makes sense. Just by living with people and probably growing up a little bit, you tend to have to rescind control over the course of your life in various ways. I don't know.
Dedeker: What, now that I'm an adult, now I get to have control over everybody?
Emily: No. I mean maybe-
Dedeker: Damn right.
Emily: - you're a little bit more likely to be, like, "Ah, I'll let that one go. I don't have to worry about it as much, or I don't need to control the situation as much." Maybe I'm wrong, but--
Jase: Interesting.
Emily: Yes.
Jase: I feel like I've been in a long push-pull with that at work, of like, how much do I want to try to control things, and how much do I say, "Not my circus, not my monkeys"? That's, I think, a tough balance. I could see that in relationships, too, especially when it comes to things that don't directly affect you, but if it's things about, like Dedeker, you mentioned their spending habits, or maybe health habits. Things like that, where it's, like, "Is this my business or not?"
It's in this gray area of yes, kind of, sort of, and I want to help. It's coming from a good place, but maybe it's too much. I think there is a natural push-pull on those things, about, "I don't want to not care," and just be, like, "Whatever, do your thing," but then, also caring too much can get into that controlling territory.
Dedeker: There could be such a slippery slope, like, let's say with money or with health or mental health, that it can start from a place of genuine concern for a partner. I don't like to see them suffer. I don't like to see them struggle, and I feel like I have a sense of what would be good for them or what they should do, or I really wish they would do X, Y, and Z. I wish they would go see a therapist, or I wish they would stop spending their money on silly things, or I wish they would do this, or I wish they would do that. Then it's very easy to slide into, "Hey, you should be doing these things. Hey, why aren't you doing these things? Hey, why aren't you--"
Essentially, "Why aren't you doing these things that I'm telling you to do?" Even though maybe somebody might not say it exactly that way. I think that's why it's hard for us, at least hard for me, to identify my own controlling behavior is because you have a sense more of the evolution of where it comes from. It's very easy for us to enact maladaptive behaviors when we feel like it's for the greater good, I think.
Emily: Often our relationships, we feel as though they are a reflection of ourselves. If our relationship is not looking as perfect as we want it to, that can feel like, "Well, I am not giving it enough," or "This is somehow a reflection of me and what I'm doing," or "This means that I'm dating someone who doesn't care about these things as much as I do." There's just a whole host of reasons why somebody may want to control another person.
Again, like you said, it may start and come from a place of good initially, but then it may evolve into, "Wow, this person doesn't really care about these things. Do I actually want to be with them, and if I do want to be with them, then I've got to figure out a way for them to fall in line to get to a place where they are doing the things that I want them to do."
Dedeker: I think this is a super common impulse in a non-monogamous relationship, because-
Emily: Interesting.
Dedeker: -especially if you're practicing polyamory, something that is inherent to being non-monogamous, is accepting that rather than the two of you-- let's say being a couple and being this unit, it's accepting that you're two individuals who have individual dating lives and individual sex lives and individual interests. Which means, you're in a relationship with an individual who has a life that you do not have direct control over, necessarily. Sometimes, that can be really freeing. I think the most functional non-monogamy, that fact is actually very freeing and produces a lot of joy, but when there's any aspect that feels like "This is out of my control," that often the knee-jerk reaction is, "I need to find ways to control it."
That can look like any number of ways. It can look like all the classic newbie rules that a lot of people like to make fun of, sometimes for good reason, like, "You're not allowed to have sleepovers," or "You're only allowed to see this person once a week," or "If I feel like you're seeing this person too often, then I need to find ways to claw you back," or "One penis policy. You're not allowed to date anyone who's of my same gender or your same gender or whatever," or "We can only date together."
Again, I don't think anybody enacts any of those behaviors thinking, "Perfect, this is how I'm going to control the situation." It all comes from, I think, knee-jerk reactions, from fear, from feeling like, "Oh, my god, there's something here that's out of control and I'm worried that if it's out of control, it's going to hurt me or I'm going to be abandoned or neglected or something like that. Therefore, I need to get all up in it to influence the outcome."
Jase: A couple of other variations on that, because there's that feeling like you mentioned of, "I don't have power in this area." I think this can also show up if it's less about that feeling like, "Oh, I don't have control over this," but maybe just feeling frustrated or unhappy or dissatisfied, and then trying to come up with some very, "Logical" reason for that. That's how we can end up with people having spreadsheets or lists, or trying to really quantify every little bit of effort or something that each person brings to a relationship, to then try to justify asking for more.
I think it's good to get perspective on what both people are bringing, but we've often seen the dark side of that, where people go to this place of, "Well, I do all these things for the relationship," or "I pay more for these things, so therefore, you can't complain about this," or "Therefore, you need to do these things and shouldn't complain about having to do more of those."
I think that can show up in very explicit literal ways like that, and it can also show up in this kind of implied, "Well, but I do this and I do all these things." More of implied sense. I think that one is tricky, because on the one hand, yes, we often encourage people to really take inventory of the emotional labor and things that each person is doing in a relationship, but it's also such a hard thing to quantify.
Emily: Exactly.
Jase: I think usually when people make these lists, they're forgetting about all of the invisible parts of effort that go into a relationship, or the decisions that were made for the benefit of the other person that then affect them all the time. Like living somewhere where one person has a much easier commute than another, or making some decision that puts this ongoing burden on one partner in the relationship, can easily be overlooked. It's then, "Oh, well, that was just this one thing, but look at all these other things that I do." It's just when people try to get weirdly too specific about it, they can end up using it as leverage to try to control.
Emily: I did quickly want to tell a story of this bartender that I was working with the other day who said, "Oh, I am dating this new girl. I really think she's great, but she wants to spend all her time with me. I told her this weekend, 'Hey, I just want a weekend alone. I'm going to take a couple days off.'" She ended up coming into the restaurant while we were working and he was, like, "Oh, boy, hey."
Dedeker: He didn't know she was going to show up?
Emily: No. She didn't.
Dedeker: Oh,
Emily: It was really interesting to watch that dynamic because at the end she was, like, "I'll wait around for you." He's like, "I'm going to go home. I'm going to spend the night by myself tonight and I'm going to not be with you for the rest of this weekend, like we said, because that's what I had told you that I needed." I asked him, "Are you getting good things out of this relationship?" He's like, "Yes. I love spending time with her. It's great. I just can't do it all the time. I need some time alone." There is, I think, especially in the early part of a relationship, this feeling that, "I am entitled to my partner's time," or "They don't like me if they don't want to spend all their time with me."
Jase: Yes. Definitely.
Emily: Trying to control that situation in various ways like that. The fact that he had said to me hours early, "Oh, yes. I'm just taking the weekend for myself. I'm excited." Then she shows up. It was really alarming for everyone. It was just a fascinating thing to watch and again, I'm sure she felt like it wasn't a big deal, but I bet part of it was her insecurity and feeling like, "I need to control this part of the situation and so I want to come in and say hi to this person."
Dedeker: I imagine if I put myself in her shoes, maybe trying to imagine her feeling the thing that she's feeling, I don't think that I would have a conscious sense of this is me trying to control somebody's time.
Emily: Probably not.
Jase: Right. It wouldn't feel like that.
Emily: I think from the outside, that's pretty obvious.
Dedeker: Fascinating.
Emily: I agree. It was fascinating.
Dedeker: Well, I hope that all goes however it's supposed to go for the greatest good for everyone involved.
Jase: Sure.
Emily: Now, power and control is not always a bad thing. We talked about that a little bit in the last episode. It can be really great at certain situations at work. It can help aid people who are less fortunate than you are if you have some power and can use it for good. It can help create really effective leaders, help you have more confidence in yourself. All of those things are excellent. There is this struggle in the push and pull between how much power and control is really necessary, especially in romantic relationships and how much is overbearing and how much is potentially damaging to those relationships.
Dedeker: We've danced around this a little bit in our conversation so far, but I do think it's interesting to dive into what are the reasons why controlling behavior even exists in a relationship? It doesn't necessarily just come out of nowhere. It's not like this person was just born evil and controlling and manipulative. Most controlling behaviors are some sort of coping mechanism or they're serving some sort of purpose. Guess what? My sister also has some controlling tendencies in her home and relationship.
Jase: Interesting. Almost as if there was something.
Dedeker: Almost as if there's something. There's some-
Emily: You're cut from the same cloth?
Dedeker: -sort of environment that we grew up in in common.
Emily: That too. Yes.
Dedeker: No, but actually, my sister and I have had a lot of good conversations about that, of the things that we identified in our family of origin. One of them being growing up in a fairly authoritarian parenting environment, but combined with also there being a certain amount of instability, some unpredictability in our childhoods, which for both of us has resulted in really, really wanting to control the sense of home and your little retreat space and your little nest that you fall into and really wanting to make sure that that's orderly and predictable.
My sister and I both have this thing where if life is stressful, we both compulsively feel a need to bring chaos into order by it being, like, "Okay, I'm going to drop everything and organize this bookshelf right now," or ,"I'm going to drop everything and I need to break down these cardboard boxes right now." Do remember that one time Jase got mad at me because I did it, like, two minutes before we had to start recording?
Emily: Yes. I remember that vividly.
Dedeker: I was stressed out about something entirely different. I think it was when I was going through my bad breakup.
Emily: Oh, jeez.
Dedeker: I think that's what was going on.
Emily: I just got to do these boxes.
Dedeker: It was just like, "No. I have to. Jase, I have to. I have to break down these boxes right now."
Emily: You're, like, "But why?"
Jase: That's true.
Emily: Goodness.
Dedeker: I think, of course, trauma baggage from family of origin or even just what microculture you grew up in in your family of origin can really influence those behaviors later in life.
Emily: Absolutely. I found an article in Psychology Today basically asking the question, "Does your partner really want to control you? Why exactly are they trying to control you? What is underneath the surface there?" Like Dedeker said, it may be just a huge history of baggage from family of origin, from past relationships, from just their life being disorganized in general and them wanting to have some sense of control over multiple aspects of their life. They also may simply just have really poor self-esteem and be deeply insecure.
This is something that I found was absolutely the case with my ex. A lot of the behaviors that he had were coming from a deep sense of insecurity. Insecurity about things like, I think, the two of you, Jase and Dedeker, he was worried that I was going to eventually just want to try to get back together with the two of you or be non-monogamous and want to leave him for that life, for example. I think that in that insecurity, he had a tendency to want to maybe put me down in a variety of ways so that they feel like they have more personal validation or raise themselves up or just feel like they have more control of the situation in general.
Jase: I think something that we didn't get into as much in the first part, but I think that often shows up in making little jokes or teasing that crosses that line into being a little bit mean and that I think that--
Dedeker: That's like taking someone down a peg.
Jase: Right. It's like the taking someone down a peg thing.
Dedeker: I'm familiar.
Jase: Within your relationship, of making little jabs that can end up being hurtful, I think, often what causes them to cross that line is that feeling of low self-esteem. I think that if you feel bad about yourself, it's easy to think, "Oh, maybe this other person has too high an opinion of themselves." It could even be that you are the one who has the really high opinion of them and you feel like they need to be taken down, even though that might not be their experience. They might be just as insecure as you. I think I definitely see that one coming a lot from more insecure people tend to be the ones that make the meanest jokes who do-
Dedeker: That's a good point.
Jase: -the meanest are tease and stuff like that.
Dedeker: Yes. I think a lot of it, again, comes down to some insecurity, and it could be insecurity related to your own sense of self-worth, but I also think it can be related to a sense of insecurity in the relationship or an insecurity around, "I don't trust that I'm going to be able to communicate what it is that I want here," or maybe "I don't think it's okay for me to be vulnerable and to communicate what I want here," or "If I do communicate what I want, I don't think it's going to be received and therefore I need to resort to all these different ways to manipulate and control my partner into getting them to do what I want."
Again, to take the non-monogamy example, maybe it feels too vulnerable to say, "Hey, I actually have this really deep fear that if I let you have just unrestricted freedom of your time, you're going to abandon me. You're going to find this person that you're way more into and just only want to spend time with them and then I'm going to be alone." That feels too vulnerable to say it's a little bit easier for me to ask you endless questions about what your plans are for the weekend, or make little jabs like, "Gosh, you're spending a lot of time with this person," that it becomes a little easier and ironically, safer to be a little bit more of a dick about it.
Jase: I think that in traditional default monogamy approach to relationships, often that comes up in that pressure to put a ring on it. To get that commitment. Also, I think coming from deeper down this sense that--
Dedeker: If you like it then you should have put a ring on it as we all know.
Jase: Exactly. This idea of if you don't do something to claim it-
Emily: Lock it down.
Jase: -and to make it harder for them to leave you, than they will. If you don't do something to make it hard, then they will leave you. I think, ultimately, that boils down to a self-esteem question and the confidence that this person does still want to be with me.
Emily: I think a lot of people also just have really poor communication skills, like you were saying. There can be things like gaslighting behavior that come from that, or resorting to things like shouting or verbally berating a partner when you're in the midst of a heated conflict. That happened a ton with me and that was really, really difficult to worry all the time is a conversation that we have going to erupt into that?
I think that sometimes that just happens because they don't know how to express themselves well, and they don't know how to really say the thing that is more vulnerable and that is possibly going to cause them to have to look inward and be, like, "Shit. Where is this coming from? How can I fix it? How can I actually move myself away from all this pain and into a place of healing?" It's easier to just put your partner down or make them feel small or worse about themselves.
Dedeker: That is a way of controlling a conversation and controlling conflict. Again, I have to be careful to clarify that feeling angry or feeling sad or feeling frustrated, that's not wrong if that comes up during conflict. Especially when I work with couples, that big emotive displays, whether that's shouting or slamming doors or dissolving into sobbing, again, maybe nobody actually goes into that with the intent of controlling, but that is the result. That often is the impact is that now this person has control of the topic of conversation or of the conflict and often, again, it's serving to defend them from having to be vulnerable or uncomfortable in some sort of way.
Emily: Absolutely. Dedeker, the discussion that we had at the beginning of this section about you having challenges growing up and seeing some of those same challenges with your sister in the ways that she wants to control her life and her kids and her relationship and stuff like that, and that sometimes you have a tendency to do those same behaviors. I wanted to discuss this specific study because it relates to that a little bit. This is a study called Perceived Psychological Control in Early Adolescence predicts lower levels of adaptation into mid-adulthood.
Dedeker: Gosh, they just come right out and say it, don't they?
Jase: Yes, it's all right there in the title.
Emily: There it is. Done. That's the case. This was a 2020 study by Loeb et al from the University of Virginia. Specifically, I want to talk about the fact that this study distinguishes something called behavioral control versus psychological control. What they specifically mean as behavioral control is having rules for kids, structure for kids. They believe that that kind of control is necessary for kids when they're growing up. That they are specifically putting systems in place so that the kid has structure in their lives, for instance.
Dedeker: The stuff that as every teenager hates anyway and thinks it's so controlling of their parents that they have to be back by 10 o'clock or whatever. That counts as behavioral control.
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: This researcher thinks "Yes, that's a good thing. It's good to have rules and and structure." Makes sense.
Emily: Yes, which I would agree with, even though maybe as kids we didn't like that as much. Then psychological control is doing something like refusing to look at your child if they upset you.
Dedeker: No, no. Emily.
Emily: I know. I'm sorry. I figured that this might touch a nerve with you, Dedeker, reminding them of all of the things that you've done for them. I've definitely heard of parents doing that.
Dedeker: As in, it crosses the line outside of, "I need to put some boundaries around your behavior and try to get you to be a functioning adult." It crosses the line into-- To me, it does sound like making it about me or trying to manipulate your psychology or the way that you think about things in particular.
Emily: They also talked about withholding love. If you don't perform in school as well as you should or something, things along those lines.
Dedeker: A little bit of mind fuckery-
Emily. Definitely.
Dedeker: -in your parenting.
Emily: Yes, absolutely.
Dedeker: To find a point on it or anything.
Emily: Yes. 100%. This was a longitudinal study. It was measured from 184 teens from various socioeconomic backgrounds from the time they were 13 years old until they were 32. The researchers collected interviews. They had videos of the kids interacting with friends and then later romantic partners. They got educational records and they surveyed other teens at their school about how much time they would like to spend with those adolescents in the study.
Dedeker: Actually also, how popular are you? How many friends do you have?
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: Oh, no.
Emily: A little bit. I know. Which is a little scary. They found that, "Teens whose parents used more psychological control developed less supportive romantic relationships by age 27 and were less likely to be in a relationship at all, by age 32. In addition, these teens went on to achieve less education by age 32." They found that the teens were struggling with being liked by their peers at ages 15 and 16, and they had a difficult time being able to think about challenging social situations in a nuanced way.
They were able to find this by those video interviews that they had with their peers at the school, and they would ask them questions like, "Do you want to spend time with this person on a Saturday night?" They found that those kids that had more psychological control placed on them, these other kids didn't want to spend as much time with them. I know. It's sad.
Jase: It is.
Dedeker: That's why I didn't have so many friends growing up. It all makes sense.
Emily: Oh, gosh. I'm sorry, Dedeker. I do think that in looking back at my partner who also had a similar, not always predictable childhood, that being able to look at things rationally and nuanced in terms of not just being super black and white about a situation when you're in conflict with a partner, that was a lot more difficult for him to do.
Dedeker: That's interesting because I've got a streak of that too. I think I've gotten a lot better about it, but for sure, that was actually even something that people commented on when I was a teen specifically.
Emily: Oh, fascinating.
Jase: Oh really? What was the comment?
Dedeker: That I had this pretty black and white streak in me.
Emily: The author suggested that their findings provide strong evidence that psychological control predicts long-term difficulties. This is after ruling out other potential explanations just like temperament or personality or things like that, but that this psychological control that parents might have had on their kids over the course of their life caused them to not be able to handle certain things as well as they might have had they been brought up in a more supportive, loving environment. Which I think makes a lot of sense, but it's something for us all to look at if we are parents, none of us are, but I think those of you out there who are, it's something to be aware of. Absolutely.
Then if you grew up in an environment like this or you know that your partner grew up in an environment like this, to have some empathy and some understanding for the fact that it might be more challenging for them to interact with you in the way that the two of you need just simply because they didn't have the tools that made them good at being able to do that when they were growing up. Hopefully, that knowledge can allow for healing to start and to happen. I do think that it's something just for people to be aware of that all of this so often comes from family of origin.
Jase: I think that what Dedeker mentioned briefly that she feels like she's gotten better at less of that black and white thinking. I think that the bigger thing there to take away though is that with this sort of study, it's not to say, "Well, you're just screwed. If this is how you were brought up, oh, well, it's too late." That being aware of it is the thing that lets you realize, "Oh, okay. This is something that I could be better at. It's possible to be a different way about this and it might take some extra effort and some time to learn that in adulthood, but that that's possible." That's very possible. I think that's an important thing to take away here too.
These ones about childhood stuff always concern me a little bit if they seem too much, like, they're just saying, "Oh, well, if you have this, tough." Dedeker has seen change. I've even seen change in the time I've known Dedeker.
Dedeker: Oh, good. Oh, thank god.
Jase: I think you've already been doing work before that.
Emily: That's excellent to hear.
Jase: I like to think that all of us have taken steps in the time we've known each other to continue to improve ourselves and make those steps to find what are the things that we did out of habit because of how we were brought up or what we learned from our earliest relationships. To actually look at those and decide which are the aspects of that, that I actually do want to continue forward rather than, I think if we don't do that work to examine it and understand where things are coming from, we can just end up thinking, "Oh, well, that's just how you do it." I think a lot of people can go through life just never really questioning or even trying to evaluate.
Maybe were brought up in a sense of like, "Oh, we just do this because that's how we did it." I think it's great to just learn about these things because I think that can help free us from the control of things that we just aren't even aware of. It's much easier for them to drive the car if we're not aware of them. As soon as we are, then it changes things.
To help you explore this, we have a pair of journaling exercises here. The first one is more focused on reflecting on a specific instance. Perhaps during this episode, we told a story where you're like, "Oof. Yes. That does seem like something that I've done," or maybe something comes up in the future. This one will focus on exploring a specific thing that happened and trying to learn from that, trying to understand yourself better. Then the second one is then taking that and applying it more generally to how you approach control in your relationships.
Here's the first one. As we've been mentioning, so much of our desire for control comes from pain in the past or just patterns and habits that we've had in the past. It's important to get an understanding for that, and also to work through our traumas, whether those are lowercase t or uppercase T traumas, in order to release some of our need to control others.
As we talked about in the previous episode, by being less controlling and giving your partners and your friends more influence and control, actually will also make them be more likely to admire you, want to spend time with you, have a more satisfying sex life with you. All of these things, that if we can find how we can let go of more of these, we'll actually get the results that we've been wanting all along, which is pretty cool.
Working with a therapist or a coach is, of course, a fantastic way to do this, but you're also going to need to give this some thought on your own. We have another journaling exercise, like the one we did in the last episode, but something that I think would be great for everyone to do as just a way to explore how you approach control, how you approach decision-making, and influence in your relationships. First thing to do is get out your journal and write about a recent interaction where you felt the need to control your partner. What happened, and how did you react?
Emily: Yes, an example of this for me is similar to what I was speaking about earlier in the episode, where the guy's girlfriend came to work to check out what it was that he was doing, even though he had said, "Hey, I just want to stay alone this weekend." That probably caused a lot of insecurity. You decided to go do that thing, and maybe the reaction that you got from your partner was not one of, "Oh, I'm so excited to see you," but rather, "What are you doing here? I thought that we were going to--"
Dedeker: This is my place of work.
Emily: Yes. "I thought that we were not going to hang out this weekend. Why aren't you abiding by those boundaries that we had put in place this weekend?"
Dedeker: Yes. Maybe another example could be, I think this is a common one, especially common for me, because I'm such a stickler around time and schedules, but maybe feeling the need to really pin a partner down on, "Okay, when are you going to be back home from your date? What time?" or "What time can I expect to hear from you? I need to know specifically what it is." Again, that's a behavior where asking for timing on something, I don't think inherently in itself is wrong, but it can definitely go down this much more controlling pathway.
Jase: Yes. Another one might be about their spending or how they're spending their time. Maybe if you did a little bit of teasing way of reminding them about that. Yes, trying to think of a situation like that of what happened, what did you do? It was coming from a sense of, like, "I'm worried about this. I want to control this." Then, to ask, how did these behaviors make you feel afterward? How did you feel after you did whatever it was? Then ask the question, "How do you think that made your partner feel based on what you observed? How did they tell you that it made them feel if they did tell you," and then dig a little deeper into the emotions behind that desire to control.
Did it come from feeling insecure or anxious, or fearful for yourself? Did it come from worrying about how their actions might reflect on you? What's behind this? What was underneath that desire to affect their behavior? Then explore, are there past experiences or patterns that might be contributing to those feelings? Are those patterns and experiences from this relationship, or are they from something in the past? Then reflect on how these tendencies might impact your relationship overall. What are you gaining from this? What might you be losing from this?
Then write down answers to these questions. What are things that I can control in my life? What are things that I cannot control in my life, or maybe should not control in my life? Just take all of that down, write this out, really spend some time thinking about it.
Dedeker: Now that you've hopefully gotten a little bit more insight into yourself and how you tick, it can be good to do that first chunk of the exercise and then leave it for a few days and let it process and let yourself reflect. Then come back, and then we have a series of prompts for looking at how this plays out in your relationships. Sit down and spend some time describing what a healthy, balanced relationship looks like for you. What qualities are present? What behaviors are present?
Next, try to make a list of two or three actionable steps that you can take to release the need for control. The whole point of this is, how can I actually turn my controlling impulses into actions that support getting the relationship that I want? Maybe an example of this could be, when I feel this urge to really pin my partner down on what time are you going to be back tonight, to the minute. Maybe what I'm going to do in that situation is I'm actually going to take five minutes just to cool down and notice the sensations.
Of course, I'm going to go for the mindfulness option, take five minutes, sit down, cool down, pay attention to what my feelings are trying to tell me, and then evaluate, "Do I really need to ask for this in this particular moment?" That's just one example. Or when I notice this need to control my partner in this particular way, I have my best friend who knows that I'm struggling with this, and they've given me permission to text them and just rant about all the things I wish I could control right now. I'm going to do that instead of trying to be domineering of my partner in this particular moment, stuff like that.
Now, if you really want bonus points on this exercise, we'd highly recommend that you also have your partner take some time to write out what they feel a healthy and balanced relationship would look like to them. Then use that as a foundation for the two of you to sit down and actually have an open conversation about this. Not just talking about what the two of you envision as far as a healthy and balanced relationship, but also just having a conversation about control.
I know this can be vulnerable, but it can also be very helpful to bring to a partner. "Hey, I know that I have these behaviors that drive you nuts because you feel like they're controlling. These are my strategies that I'm going to try on in order to make this feel a little bit better for both of us."
We always encourage making things like this a reiterative process. As in like in a RADAR, come back to this periodically. After you've done this exercise together, had this conversation, make sure that you also have time for a check-in a few weeks or in a month or something like that to have a sense of, "Are things feeling better? My strategy is to let go of control more. Are they actually working for me? Are they creating more ease? Are they creating more stress," so that then you can adjust and tweak from there.
Emily: We do want to remind you, when communicating with your partner in a more vulnerable and honest way, just try to use some of the tools that we've discussed in our earlier episodes and in our book. Things like the Triforce of Communication to express what it is that each of you wants and need in that moment or just in general. Maybe halt if the discussion gets too heated and you need to take a pause.
Also, things like clean talk or non-violent communication as a model of how to speak to a partner through observations about what happened, expressing personal feelings, stating what you need from a partner, and then making a request of your partner. If you're somebody who has a really difficult time expressing what your feelings are, you can use something like a Plutchik Wheel to help describe to your partner what your feelings are.
Jase: Google "wheel of emotion." You should be able to find a guide for that.
Emily: Absolutely. That's also something that's in our book as well. Repair attempts are any statement or action that prevents negativity from escalating out of control, help get the conversation back on track, and start re-establishing the connection between you and your partner. Look for these again in our book. You can google them for more information, or you can go to the specific episodes that talk about each of these. We don't have episodes for every single one of these. I think all of them are in our book, but you can definitely check out that for more information.
I don't think that I'm a particularly controlling person, but I do think that sometimes I have behaviors that are controlling, and I've found that a little bit more recently, which is interesting. I think non-monogamy, for instance, adds a whole new level of complexity and not always knowing what's going to happen next. You really have to let go of control to be, I think, in a healthy non-monogamous relationship, which is probably why it's something that's great for you, too, Dedeker, just because you can't be in control all the time.
Dedeker: I've had my work cut out for me in this life.
Emily: Indeed. I guess many of us have. Yes, I think also this episode helped me have a little bit more understanding and sympathy for people in my life who have exhibited controlling behaviors over me, just because it's tough. We all have challenging situations in our lives, and sometimes family of origin situations are more difficult than others. I at least have some sympathy for that, even if ideally I wish that my ex had these exercises, for instance, to dig deeper and try to heal themselves along those lines, to move away from these feelings of needing to control. It's something for us all to be aware of to have some compassion about.
Jase: Hopefully, by having conversations, it's something you can work together to make your best relationship. If this isn't something where it's like, "Wow, this is out of control, we need to end this relationship," if it's not that, by approaching it as a team, I think that you'll get much better results than just one person trying to do this on their own. If it does come from places of insecurity or challenges from their upbringing or patterns that they've been into, by both people being able to discuss that, be aware of it, if this is a relationship where you can actually support each other in making those changes, I think that will make it a much more enjoyable process along the way as well.
Dedeker: Take it from me, folks, I'm the queen of control freaks, but with effort, and with loving partnerships, and a lot of compassion and understanding from my two best friends/two podcast co-hosts, even you can learn to let go and live a life that's a little bit more useful.
Jase: Love that.