363 - Q & A with Multiamory

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Q & A with Dedeker, Jase, and Emily

This week's episode is a special Q & A one with the hosts of Multiamory so they can answer some of the many questions they get asked on a regular basis. If this Q & A is beneficial to our listeners, we will do another one next month!

Listen to the full episode to get Jase, Dedeker, and Emily’s insights on some of the questions our listeners often have.

Transcript

This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.

Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we're trying out something that we haven't done in a while and that is going through and answering some questions that we have gotten from listeners. I think the last one we did was a couple of years ago or something like that but we get a lot of questions that people will post on social media or they'll send to us on Facebook or mention the discord things like that. We do our best to answer them when we can or at least point to resources or relevant episodes but we just don't have the time that we would like to dedicate to really getting into all of those questions and really discussing them more thoroughly with people.

We decided to make an episode out of it. We're going to be doing another one next month and we're seeing if this might be something that we want to keep doing so let us know if you've got more questions and how you like these. We have tried to group the questions in this particular episode a little bit on theme so they're similar to each other. Hopefully, these also might answer some questions for you that you might have that are a little bit similar to these. Hopefully, your questions might get answered by the answer to someone else's question. Of the questions that we've gotten, we asked for permission from people to share those on the show and those are the ones that we're going to cover here today.

Dedeker: Let me think about if there's any disclaimers or caveats we need to give. I feel like whenever you give advice we got some legal layers.

Emily: We're not clinical professionals.

Jase: We're not medical professionals, we're not legal professionals, we're--

Dedeker: Fix your plumbing.

Emily: No.

Jase: Can you fix your plumbing

Emily: We're an advice show today. We're giving advice.

Jase: We're giving our thoughts. Maybe we'll put it that. These are our thoughts but ultimately, this is your life and you have to make the decisions that are right for you. Don't just do it because we said so.

Emily: Totes. Yeah. All righty. I'm going to jump right into this first one. We got a listener question that says poly relationships often include a lot of transitions especially in long term situations. What are some routines or rituals you think partners reconnecting after not seeing each other for a while could use to reconnect?

Dedeker: This is a really good one actually because I love routine and I love rituals. We did cover a little bit of this on, oh, gosh, way back in Episode 186 about reconnecting when you don't want to. The reason it's called reconnecting when you don't want to is because it was specifically about the phenomenon of coming back together maybe into the same space with a partner after one of you has been on a date. For some people, that brings up some weird uncomfortable feelings and so it was mostly about working through that. In that episode, we did give some suggestions for ways that you might consider reconnecting together if you haven't seen each other for a while. I believe the stuff we talked about in that episode included something as simple as going for a walk together, getting out into nature together.

We also talked quite a bit about parallel play as well, which that's more for the situation of if you're a person where it feels a little bit hard to make that transition, if it's been a while or if you've been around another partner. For some people, it's a little bit harder to make that switch that engaging in parallel play, as in we're going to engage in maybe the same activity or slightly different activities next to each other instead of together at exactly the same time just to help get your nervous systems used to being around each other again. That's a very particular use case. I guess there's other reconnecting activities if it's been a while I guess such as your favorite date night activity. What suggestions do the two of you have?

Emily: What's something that the two of you do?

Jase: Right, I was going to say this is something that Dedeker and I have done a lot because we've spent, I would say the majority of our relationship part-time long distance from each other, where we would spend parts of the year apart and parts of the year together often living together so like very close and then on opposite sides of the globe. We've had lots of practice with this and I think, to go with what Dedeker was mentioning about the parallel placing of just being around each other, is something that I have noticed over the years is we go through these phases of when we first see each other again there's all that giddy, excited, kissy, kissy, "Oh, wow, this is amazing, oh, gosh you smell this way wow, that's great have missed that. Oh, your skin feels so good." There's all those sorts of things but then it's like there's also this realization that switching between those two modes of being long distance and then being in close quarters with each other is also a transition.

I think we've naturally over time developed this like, "Yes, yes, yes," at first and then a little bit of this we're not going to try to rush and do everything together or do all the dates or all the fun stuff right away because it's just not sustainable but also it's this shock to the system. I've noticed that we have this settling in period a little bit and this is also when we're coming back together for a longer time, we're going to be together for a few months. If it were or we get a weekend together that's going to be different. If I have friends or partners that I only get to see for a weekend twice a year or something like that, that's different. Then it's like let's do all our fun stuff and exhaust ourselves because then we've got time to recover afterward.

I guess that's more what I wanted to throw in is almost just having that understanding because I know that earlier on in our relationship sometimes, I at least, I don't know if you experienced this Dedeker, but would feel a lot of pressure to make that reunion really amazing and special and all the things. Even if maybe I was feeling exhausted or seeing you feeling that way or just being overwhelmed it's like no, but I've got to make it amazing because we haven't seen each other. Letting go of that pressure has helped a lot.

Emily: I think that would be my number one thing, especially if you're coming back to seeing a person that you may be encountering for a long period of time after just seeing them for the first time after a while to try to figure out ways in which to take the pressure off and not necessarily jump in immediately with both feet but do things that are normal for you in your space potentially if a person is coming into your space and try to ease them into the situation a bit. Actually, I recall, Dedeker a few years ago, I think it was quite a few years ago at this point but I picked her up from the airport once, after Transatlantic flight. You were coming over and hanging out at my place before coming to see Jase.

Dedeker: Yes, I remember now and I passed out in a jet lag nap for like six hours in your bed.

Emily: I was really excited to see you and I really had all these ideas and plans and thoughts about maybe what we were going to do. I had gotten you a gift and done all these things. I honestly felt really sad when you just--

Dedeker: Oh, no.

Emily: It's fine in retrospect obviously, but at the time, I was let down because my idea of this perfect reunion didn't end up happening. I think internally understanding that, that may not be what actually occurs and to be okay with that to let it go, to maybe not have expectation. Just easing each other into the moment especially if you're going to be going on a really long flight because somebody's coming back from a really long flight and a whole day of traveling or multiple days of traveling just let it be. It's going to be okay and you'll have your time to hang out and do fun things.

Dedeker: I'm so sorry to let you down that way if it makes you feel any better, I was so happy to be able to sleep on your bed after that long flight.

Emily: Yes I know, that's fun. I am sure. That's what you needed in that moment. It was good for me to respect that.

Dedeker: There's a part two to this question, sort of on the opposite end of things. What are some routines or rituals you would recommend to help partners feel more secure when they're saying goodbye to each other, especially for an extended length of time? Definitely been through this one a kajillion times in the past couple of years with a lot of travel and traveling for extended periods of time. This is going to be repeating the same thing. Again, when you're leading up to departing from somebody, there can be that same pressure.

Jase: Gosh, boy, I felt that's.

Dedeker: Exactly. A combination of we need to do all the things we didn't have time for, now we got to cram it in, every single second, we got to make sure that it's meaningful, no time can be wasted. We have to make sure that goodbye is really meaningful. I've definitely found time and time again, the more you can take that pressure off of yourself, the better. It doesn't mean that you don't do anything, I think even a really simple ritual of, we're going to go out to our favorite restaurant, or our favorite little cafe and just spend some time together.

Then we're going to go to bed and go to sleep. It's going to be great. I think that roping in both, we're going to do something a little special and meaningful and also, we're going to be very intentionally creating a feeling of normalcy around that, at least for me, helps me feel better and more secure because I know I'm acknowledging us parting ways. Also, there's not all this pressure to every single second has to be meaningful and romantic. That it's okay for us to just be in the space together and still, go to the grocery store, or watch a TV show, or whatever the things that we would normally do.

Emily: I know for myself when I've gone and left my partner for a gig at Disneyland, I did that two years in a row for an extended period of time, like two months, where I ended up staying in China and singing over there, that I found, the last few days before my leaving to be super hectic because, I was getting all of my shit together and all of my clothes, what am I going to pack? What am I going to take and all of those things, and it did cut into that potential time with my partner. Just to be aware of that, and potentially also, if you know that things are going to be super hectic, to maybe have some contingency plans around that to either make those really special dates happen beforehand, perhaps the weekend leading up to the time in which you're leaving, or making sure that you get all of your stuff done before you're about to leave.

I think I didn't do a good job of that both times. It's just right up to the last second I was packing and doing a bunch of shit. That did potentially make the time that I had with my partner not as special and I regret that.

Jase: That's great that you said that because that was the thing I was going to bring up was planning your whatever your special final thing is, whether it's dinner at your favorite restaurant together or, some activity you like, or a whole day of having sex or, whatever it is that for the two of you is this fun special thing is yes, to do it a little early because saving it for that last day, there are many other stressors, things. Then I guess the other thing to keep in mind is that everyone else that your partner knows or that you know is also wanting to get their last chance to see you or to see them.

Making room for that and realizing that so that then, say if you're the one who's staying behind, then it's we get to have our special thing, but I'm not contributing to the extra stress. Then, it's not like we look back after we've left and thought, "I remember the stuff on that last day, but not the stuff that happened a week before." No, "We remember what was great, what was special, and what was meaningful." It doesn't have to be at one specific time. I guess I'd say that is similar to what Emily said, which is recognizing all those things and focusing on just helping each other feel good, rather than, trying to meet that magical fairy tale thing of like, "Oh, we're having this great night all the way up till the point where I dropped you off at the airport, " or whatever it is because that's actually very stressful in real life.

Emily: All righty, let's move on to the next question, which is, do you have any tips for communicating boundaries about mental health to a partner? I keep coming up with things like I will not be in a relationship with a partner who doesn't support my mental health care plan but that doesn't seem right when what I really mean is that I will prioritize my mental health over any romantic slash sexual relationship.

Dedeker: Yes. First of all, I feel like this person already started to answer their own question a little bit about this is actually really what I'm prioritizing and valuing thinking about heading into a new relationship or connecting with a new partner, potentially. I think when it comes to communicating any boundaries in a relationship, let's particular focus on this one about your own mental health, your own mental health care plan, and what you want in a relationship, I think there are a lot of different ways that your boundaries can look and a lot of different ways the boundaries can be enforced.

This one of, I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't support my mental health care plan, I don't think that's a bad place to start. Boundary enforcement doesn't always have to look like the most extreme version of it, like cutting this person off or leaving the relationship. It could look like, I'm going to speak up, if I feel a partner is maybe encroaching or not understanding or not prioritizing my mental health in the same way that I want to prioritize my mental health. That could just be your boundary is I'm going to speak up.

Then, if that person continues to do things that you feel cross that line for you, then you can go to more intense measures. It could be when you're in the dating process with somebody, it could be, I'm just going to make a mental note about the ways that this person handles the topic of mental health. If I talk about going to therapy, or if I disclose about how I'm treating my depression or things like that, what's their reaction? What do they share? Do they talk about their mental health? Do I get a sense that they care about this and support this?

Maybe it's just I'm going to prioritize making those kind of mental notes as I'm getting to know somebody and really prioritizing that as evaluating whether or not I want to get into a relationship with this person?

Jase: This is something that the three of us have actually been talking about a lot on our own is about not just boundaries, but all the other things kind of connected to that. There's boundaries and your values and your priorities. Then rules and agreements you might have with partners or just personal policies you might have for yourself. There's a lot of different ways this could look. I guess the thing I would want to bring up here, and I think that the person asking this question is even feeling this a little bit and that's that, while we think boundaries are super valuable, and they're really important.

I think that a problem that a lot of people have run into as it's like, "Oh, I've heard about boundaries, and I hear they're great, I should do them." It's like, yes, but boundaries are this last line of defense. They're this thing when you're at those points, where it's hard to make a decision about, how to take care of yourself, or places where you consistently let yourself stay in situations that are bad, boundaries can be a really helpful way for you to set some policies to help protect yourself. In terms of communicating what we want from our partners, and what matters to us,

I would actually argue that boundaries are not the ideal way to do that, in general, because they're more like that last line of defense. If you're there on your boundaries all the time with your partners, that's not going to be a very healthy relationship for either of you, really. I would encourage you here to do what you're saying, which is, what I mean is I'm going to prioritize my mental health over my romantic and sexual relationships. I think that sentence right there is fantastic. Then it may be begs the question of well, okay, then how?

Dedeker: What is that going to look like?

Jase: Exactly? What does it look like? Is it not making every free day on your calendar available to partners? Is it specifically about I'm not going to spend as much money on dates because I need to have money for therapy, or, for other types of self-care? Is there a specific relationship that's maybe consistently harmful to your mental health? In which case, okay, yes, maybe a boundary is appropriate there to go that's not a type of relationship that I deserve to be in so I'm not going to.

It's asking those questions of how can you make this true for yourself? How can you prioritize this? Is it just about expressing that to partners? Is it just being more firm with partners about saying no to things? Or is there some kind of support that you specifically want from a partner in which case it's a little let me express that and hopefully if this partner cares about me, they're going to do what they can to provide that. I guess my sense of this question would be to really encourage asking those other questions rather than just how do I refine a boundary. Yes, let's get into what you really want, how can you make that? It doesn't have to be with these hard and fast boundaries necessarily.

Emily: Yes. The framing of the initial part of this question makes it feel slightly like this person might be in a relationship where their partner isn't prioritizing their mental health, or they're prioritizing themselves over the mental health of their partner, I guess, but that may not be the case. I guess that is question of what is the reality here, and to also know. As difficult as it can be at times, I'd like to think that our partners and the people with whom we're romantically involved to have our best interest at heart.

The way in which we communicate our needs to them is coming from a place of love, care and respect, and they are also trying to meet our needs from those same places. I agree with Jase, and Dedeker on the fact that a boundary, we wouldn't be butting up against that over and over again, in a loving and healthy relationship, but rather those things are addressed in initial stages, and they can morph and change and move throughout the course of a relationship but that we come at our interactions with our partners, with those ideas in place. That let's start from a place of love as opposed to a place of this person is violating my boundary or violating me.

That may be the case, but if we can assume good intentions first, that's always a nice place to start from. Yes, so I don't know. This is a complex question and I think it's very specific to the individual, but those are hopefully, some things to think about.

Jase: Awesome, and before we go on to a few more questions, we're going to take a quick break to talk about the sponsors for this show. Take in a moment to listen to our sponsors, really does help us a lot, especially if you want to check them out because it's very important to us that this podcast remains available to everyone for free. The way that we do that is with having advertisers and of course, with support from you on Patreon.

Take a moment to check these out if any of them seem interesting to you. All right, so now let's switch gears with a question about gift-giving. The question is traditional anniversary gifts feel old school for modern relationships. Are you aware of any gift guides out there for people who aren't on the relationship escalator?

Emily: I looked up some gift guides and I couldn't find any. I was like gift guides for people not on the relationship escalator which garnered nothing.

Dedeker: I can't think of a least successful collection of search terms.

Emily: Yes.

Dedeker: Wirecutter which is tied to the New York Times, they make great gift guides all the time and very, very hyper-specific gift guides as well. Maybe someday someone at Wirecutter will create this very list but today is not that day.

Jase: I actually not too long ago was looking for these types of anniversary type gifts. I generally do that minimum once a year, probably more often than that. Also, around the holidays or whatever, if you're looking for a Christmas gift for a couple, for example, like for your parents or friends that you see more as a couple or something like that, it's hard because so much of the stuff is really based around the identity of possessiveness, that like the his and hers towels. Not to mention super-

Emily: Gender normative.

Jase: -heteronormative and gender normative and all that. I was surprised actually just this last holiday season when I was looking through those of just how prevalent that is. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, really that's on me. That's my bad, I shouldn't have been surprised, but let's talk a little bit about since we don't have a list to give, maybe what are some ideas?

Emily: Yes, gifts are definitely one of my love languages, I love gifts.

Jase: Yes, Emily is great with gifts.

Emily: Well, I just have gifts in my mind that very tailored to the specific person, something that they'll use, like one of the early gifts that I gave Jase, and also that I gave my current partner, Josh, I recycled this, but was a decanter set because both of them like drinking whiskey.

Jase: It was a very nice, crystal decanter with glasses, yes.

Emily: Yes, definitely. That with a specific bottle of your favorite whiskey or something along those lines, I think there are other things that can be more tailored to your specific relationship. Something that I got for my partner when I was going to go to China again, is something called a love box, and maybe we can provide a link to this, but I love this.

Jase: This is not a sponsored promotion, by the way-

Emily: No, it's not.

Jase: This is just something Emily likes.

Emily: It's really cute. It's a little box with an eight-bit heart on it, and the heart moves around to tell you that a message has been received to the box, and you can spin the heart to fill up a meter on an app that says like, "I love this person." It'll be explosion of hearts in on the app, which is really cute, and you open it up and then you'll see a picture or a little message or something along those lines from a partner, and because it's an app related thing, I think that you could use it with multiple partners without necessarily needing to get multiple boxes.

One partner could send you something and another partner could send you something to the same box. Anyway, that's a fun little gift idea, especially if you're going to be in a long-distance relationship of some sort, just to have a special way to show that you love someone.

Dedeker: Yes, so I'm really focused on this part of the question that's specifically about people who are on the relationship escalator. In my mind, I'm taking that to mean gifts that are special and meaningful, but maybe aren't necessarily traditionally romantic or whatever, or I'm thinking maybe it is traditionally romantic but it's for someone where you're not necessarily intending or going to be married and have kids, and all the traditional relationship escalator stuff.

That makes me think in two different directions. On the one hand, Sam Kat, who we had on the show a few months ago now, is very into creating creative companionships in particular as a subset of polyamory and talks a lot about like gifting art supplies or the gift of creating art together, which I thought is really interesting. That's going to depend on if the person is into art or not, but I think that's really, really interesting. I'm also a huge fan of gifting experiences.

Emily: Yes. Thank you.

Dedeker: Intangible things.

Jase: Yes, I was just going to say that too.

Emily: 100%

Dedeker: That can mean it's an experience we do together, like going to a concert, going to a workshop or something like that, or it could be I'm in a gift and experience just for you like a spot A, or I'm going to gift an experience for you to pick who you want to go with. Potentially, I think that's a very non-monogamy friendly move as well, it could be, I'm going to gift something that you could bring another partner to if you want, or maybe I'm going to gift you the experience of you and multiple partners, all of us together able to do this particular thing.

Of course, it's going be limited to like how your poly functions and budgeting and things like that. Then to go hard 180 on that, in the opposite direction I gave Jase a ring last year.

Emily: I'm kind of jealous of it, actually. I want a fucking ring. Not from you, but from my partner.

Dedeker: I gave Jase a ring, not in any kind of, this is going to mean something in particular or as a marriage proposal or things like that, but just because it's like, this is nice and maybe it can be like a little bit of a symbol or maybe not like you can interface with this ring however you like. I even consulted with him for picking it out of what he would want and stuff like that. I didn't spring it on him or anything like that.

I've, in the past also asked for that jewelry from partners. Again, not as a this means we're moving up the escalator, or this means there's a particular commitment or anything like that, but just this is nice. I guess you could look at this multiple ways, of either gifting stuff that seems relationship escalatory in a context that is very intentionally not that or gifting stuff that isn't traditionally relationship escalatory.

Jase: Yes. This reminds me of a conversation that I had years ago with a friend of mine who was newish to polyamory. I was also, I guess, newish at the time, maybe the first few years or so, but he was lamenting that he felt like polyamory took away his ability to be romantic, and he really likes romance and the whole being romantic to a partner and stuff.

He felt like with polyamory because there's like a lot of things that you ideally don't want to be saying, the typical tropes of like, "You complete me or you're my one and only, or you're the best of all," or like those kinds of very monogamous-centric statements. I remember spending some time thinking about it and talking about it with him, where I'm just like, "Yes, maybe there's certain sentiments that at least personally I would argue are not even the best, most romantic sentiments you could have come up with in the first place," but I'm like, sure there's certain things that's like yes, maybe those are not great options anymore. It got me thinking about what are the very romantic, meaningful things that we can do, that's about us and our connection that doesn't have to be about the relationship escalator in terms of, oh, this is because now we're living together or having more co-identity or something.

Like with the ring thing Dedeker mentioned, for some people that might be, oh, that's too close to the, now my identity's wrapped up in who I'm symbolically attached to or something, but there's a lot of other things that you can do. I personally love personalizing stuff and this is a lot easier to do now with Etsy. There's a lot of people who can custom make things for you. It could be glassware within engravings on it, or some--

Emily: The map thing is in here that I also put, it's a map of where we met or you can do with a glass of a specific map section of where you met, in a city or whatever.

Jase: Yes, that's fun. If you have a particular inside joke, like getting that cross-stitched or something for them to put up. It's those silly, unique things that at least for me, I know when I get that weird random, but very specific gift. It is like that, wow, this is awesome. Really meaningful and special.

Or maybe it's about some fandom that you have in common or something. If you want to make it a bigger deal, because it's an anniversary, but then maybe it's that slightly higher-priced item or something that involves you have to order it well in advance, like with a lot of custom stuff on Etsy, they might not be that expensive, but it might take them like a month to ship it.

Showing that you did that work ahead of time to get that made, I think is part of the gesture, part of what makes it romantic.

Emily: All right. Let's move on to our next one. I am ready to unpause a romantic relationship with my long-term partner after pausing due to feeling overwhelmed by potentially being trauma bonded. What advice would you give someone looking to try again with a more free relationship structure?

Dedeker: This is a really interesting one. The first thing that I want to point out is, again, without knowing a lot of the context behind this question, I would want to commend the question asker and their partner for, sounds like having quite a lot of emotional awareness around this and some discernment around, maybe we need to be reexamining the foundation of our relationship and why it is that we're in a relationship in the first place.

That sounds to me like a lot of maturity and a lot of some good skills here for being able to do this. I think that's great already. The second piece of advice that I would give would be this sounds like a great conversation to have with a couple of therapists and by a couple of therapists, I mean, this could look a number of ways. It could be both of you as individuals seeking individual therapy and getting to the bottom of why did I get into this relationship?

What drew me to this person? What do I know about my trauma or our shared trauma? What can I unpack here? Doing that healing work. This could potentially be a conversation with a therapist or counselor together as well this seems to me, I know that therapy or counseling isn't always easier, or accessible to a lot of folks, but this does seem like this could be something that could be helpful to bring in a professional or at least bring in a third party to help the two of you reflect on exactly what's going on, where things may have gone wrong or where things weren't working and what needs to be in place for it to feel a little bit better in the future.

Emily: I think even if people come back together after moving apart, that can look a variety of ways and it may still mean that the relationship has de-escalated in some fashion or doesn't look exactly like it once did. This obviously wasn't the same situation, but Jase and I very much transitioned and changed our relationship from how it once looked to how it currently looks, and that in my opinion, even took a lot of different iterations to even get there.

I think people just have to be aware that relationships will always move and morph over time and that that's okay. I agree that having a third party, an objective third party in some way can be super helpful with that but I also think be an awareness of knowing so many of us want our lives to look the way that they once did. That it's difficult to feel like we don't want to immediately go back to that and immediately try to rush into a situation to recreate our bond or our lives or our relationship to look the way that it once did. I think we have to accept the fact that things change and they morph.

Especially around the pandemic, I've had to tell myself that a lot. That my relationships with even friends or my partner or the people around me is just fundamentally different than it used to be. I don't leave the house nearly as much as I used to. That's okay. That's perhaps just a part of my life that's over now. I think in a situation like this, that's also potentially okay. To allow that and mourn the loss maybe, but also be excited for the future.

Jase: Something that jumps out to me from this question is the last sentence says, what advice would you give someone looking to try again with a more free relationship structure? That to me implies that either this was more monogamous or some kind of open relationship, but they want to do something that's more open now, maybe more relationship anarchy or not cohabiting or something.

I don't know the specifics but I'm assuming this involves not only unpausing but also restructuring that relationship. I think that what's worth noting is that Emily pointed out, there's some challenges there of you'll want to go back to the way things used to feel, or maybe your partner will want things to go back to how they used to feel or how they used to work.

That can be a challenge. On the other hand, you, by having that pause have also disrupted some of those patterns and those habits that you had, which I actually think really opens you up to having an easier time of transitioning to a different type of relationship than if you had tried to just straight transition while keeping the relationship going at the same pace it was.

Just to keep that in mind is maybe something a little bit encouraging too. I don't want this to all be just doom and gloom that this is going to be so hard and it's going to take so much time, but you also have this awesome opportunity to have a little more distance coming in and getting to really look at what do we want? What do I want? What do you want? How do those line-up?

Gosh, I don't want to like end up back in bummer territory, but I actually see this as a positive, which is, and if those things don't line up, that's also okay. The fact that you've been paused a while makes that a little bit easier. Do you know what I mean? You're able to come back and renegotiate that so that it's not so much that we're trying to change and what if we don't want to change together, then we have to break up.

You're not quite as entangled as you were, which I've found at least can make those conversations a little more honest and a little more open maybe something like going through the relationship anarchy smorgasbord and even just looking at that of like, what pieces do we really want? What are the things that we want in this relationship? Or doing things like going through a radar-type discussion where you could have this, like let's review what's been going on in your life since we stopped being as in touch.

Here's what's going on in mine. Let's talk through these points and as part of that, look at how would we want this to look? What would be great? Not just what are we okay with but, what would be great? What was the question you asked me today Dedeker?

Dedeker: Oh, what sounds wonderful?

Jase: What sounds wonderful.

Emily: I love that. Wow.

Jase: What sounds wonderful. It's a really simple question but can really help with making some decisions sometimes.

Dedeker: Our last one that we're going to get to for this episode today, what are some ways to bring excitement back into a relationship once the initial rush of NRE has started to fade. boy, oh boy. I feel like there's just been billions of dollars poured into that industry and a lot of thought poured in.

Emily: Not non-monogamy related, but other even traditional relationship related.

Dedeker: We're going to have to make some assumptions here because bringing excitement back that's a phrase that can cover a lot of ground. It can cover everything from how do I get myself to be really eager to have sex with my partner again, or to get aroused super easily again with my partner, or it can refer to how do I get that fluttery butterflies in the stomach kind of feeling with my partner again, or how do I feel in love with my partner again? We're going to have to make some assumptions.

It's hard to do blanket advice that is applicable to all of those but I can talk about some of the few things that came to mind in first reading this question. First, I think we need to set up some expectations around this in the sense that purely from a chemical perspective in your brain, it's really hard to recreate that chemical rush in an already bonded relationship. It's not to say that it doesn't ever happen like you never feel those particular mix of chemicals in your brain again for a particular person but it's just this is a biological process that happens in our bodies and it's hard to recreate when the conditions aren't exactly right.

Jase: I'd argue you wouldn't actually want that. That would just be really fatiguing and unhealthy.

Emily: In a way.

Dedeker: That's the kind of thing is sometimes when someone hasn't actually felt NRE in a while they forget that, yes, NRE is great and it feels like a real natural high but also there's a deep crash from that high when you're not around the person that you're really obsessed with, there can be a lot of anxiety. Do they like me back? Do they like me as much as I like them? Did I say that thing wrong? Oh my God, are they actually reject--?

There's also a lot of second-guessing and anxiety that goes along with that, and it is also just straight-up exhausting on your body and your brain. That's why it fades over time because it's not sustainable. It's actually a good thing for it to fade over time. What that means though is that you can shift your focus a little bit to looking at what are the good things and the things that do feel good in my relationship even though we're not in NRE anymore, because there's a lot of really good bonded energy.

For me, I just think about the way that my body feels when I'm physically close to a partner, touching a partner, whether it's sexual or not, around someone that I'm just really really comfortable and close to and trust and feel safe with where that's different from the rush that I might get cuddling or having sex with someone who's brand new, but then it's different muscles in my body are able to relax and be present and be there and feel really loved. I think that's step one is changing some of what we're focusing on here.

Emily: I think in terms of having feelings for a partner sometimes there is a tendency, especially in long-term relationships to potentially take a partner for granted. I think there are potential ways to combat that, and many of them have to do with focusing on your own interests and your own other friends and other relationships and family and things like that because I do think that in a lot of ways, absence can make the heart grow fonder.

You can have moments of missing a person and then coming back to them and reigniting that excitement, but also on the flip side of that sometimes more entangling is not a bad thing either. There are moments of let's try to figure out ways to entangle ourselves in really meaningful ways and really having very intentional time together, or I think even like in the case of the pandemic, I spent more time with my partner than perhaps I ever have, and I think that it brought our relationship more close than I have ever had it be, and that was really cool.

That's been a really amazing part of I think my trajectory with him. I don't know. I think assess both of those options because they're available to you and sometimes you have to figure out what is it that is going to make this feel meaningful and exciting to me again.

Dedeker: Something I like to recommend to people is being intentional about finding ways to inject playfulness and adventurousness into your relationship. By adventurousness, I don't mean just wild sex or things like that. Really what play and adventure is about is putting yourselves in a situation where I don't know what's going to happen next but I suspect it's going to be good, but I suspect that something wonderful is going to happen, and that can be as simple as we're going to drive halfway across town and try a totally new restaurant that we've never been to before.

Maybe that doesn't sound like a huge adventure but it creates those conditions of we're together and we don't know what's going to happen next. We're discovering it together and we think it's going to be good or maybe it'll be so bad that we'll laugh about it. It is creating those novel experiences together can help to stimulate some of those feelings as well. Then also another one of my favorite tips is just kiss for seven seconds. That's a Gottman one.

Emily: Whoa.

Dedeker: There is something about that because I think they found that in their research or they cited other research that if you actually give it seven seconds, actually be like–

Emily: Eventually it's going to go to that.

Dedeker: There is something about it. It doesn't have to be a seven-second make out, it doesn't have to lead to sex but it also is different from just a quick peck that I think we're used to doing in a more long term relationship that just, I don't know it just feels nice and it gives your brain time to actually wake up to, "Oh, this is actually nice."

Jase: Oh, hey. We're kissing.

Dedeker: Oh, hey.

Jase: I guess just a couple other things I wanted to throw into the conversation. One is one that actually a doctor of all of ours in the past, a chiropractor in LA, Dr. Mike, a piece of advice that he gave to me and Emily that years and years and years ago--

Dedeker: He was giving you two relationship advice. I'm not at all surprised, knowing that man.

Jase: He gives all kinds of advice about everything.

Emily: For sure.

Jase: Just general life advice but his was about exercising together. Doing some kind of exercise together. He's like, "Because when you were originally being attracted to each other you were smelling each other's pheromones and you're all up in that." Sometimes when we just sort of live our lives in parallel, we can lose out on that. He was saying that's a way to you're sweating a little bit, there's something going on, to just remind your brain or whatever, oh yes.

Emily: Because this is a sexual being.

Jase: This is someone that I'm into. That's one thing to throw out. Then the other is to just continue on what Dedeker said about doing new things of finding some kind of adventures or things like that to do. I think that one is huge because part of that NRE excitement is the fact that it's all-new you're discovering. Now you get to discover things together.

I think part of the trick with that is being sure to pick things that sit in a good area in between what's comfortable and what's totally uncomfortable. It's like pushing yourselves a little bit, whether it's we're going to go to this event in a different town and just make up fake names for ourselves. I don't know. I'm just I'm making something up here but it's like Ooh we are in on this thing together.

It's a little scary. What if we screw it up but honestly you're not hurting anyone there aren't actually bad consequences if you get found out except maybe some bad embarrassment, John and Julie Gottman talk about going on dates and pretending that they're spies. When they were broke, they would go and get hard drink at the lobby of a really nice hotel so that they could pretend that they were fancy and could afford this expensive hotel even if they couldn't at the time. It's like looking for what are those little things that you can do that are just a little bit unknown, a little bit scary, a little bit challenging that you get to do together.

Emily: Maybe a year ago when things were starting to open up again for the first time my partner and I went out on a date to a restaurant and got gussied up and stuff for the first time in over a year. It was really alluring and sensual in a way that I don't know if any other restaurant experience has been in quite the same way and I think it was just that novel this is something that we haven't done in so long and it was really awesome and just getting to see someone across the table from you in low light looking beautiful like it was just really stunning. I will remember that for quite a while.

Jase: Actually, that's that's another one, that this is something that Dedeker and I have done for a few years which is to be sure that at least maybe once a month or so we're doing some kind of a date where we get dressed up for each other. Even if it's just at home or just doing something where you're putting in that extra effort like you might on a first or second or third date or something like that is really exciting. I definitely recommend that.

Emily: Wow. Well, we hope that you all really enjoyed this. I don't know, I love just being a little off the cuff and reading what people are interested in and getting to answer y'alls questions because I'm sure many of these things that came up for everyone today are things that maybe some of you out there are also struggling with and have questions about. Let us know what you think about this. We're doing another one next month. We'll see from there, how we're going to evolve this and if we'll continue to do it at later dates.