562 - Polyamory in a Red State with Stacey McLarty

Legal help for polyamorous families

We’re excited to invite Stacey McLarty to the show to talk about non-monogamy in conservative states and legal options available to polyamorous families. Stacey is a Texas attorney who supports individuals and chosen families through affirming, wholistic legal services. She combines two decades of legal experience with her own lived experience in the non-monogamy, kink, and burner communities. She regularly leads workshops on legal and relationship topics and is currently writing legal guides for non-monogamous and kinky folks. Stacey serves on the board of OPEN—the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-monogamy—advocating for visibility and legal recognition. Her practice reflects her belief that all consenting adults deserve the freedom to define love, family, and commitment on their own terms.

Stacey answers the following questions during this episode:

1.  The predominant stance from most polyamorous people is that generally it is far more difficult to be polyamorous in places that are more conservative. Would you agree with that stance and is there anything that polyamorous people get wrong about living in a red state?

2. Why did you feel like it was important to make legal advice available in Texas to non-monogamous folks and those in non-traditional relationships?

3. How important is community when living in a state that isn’t as liberal leaning? Are there any specific tactics you have for finding community?

4. We want to be cognizant of the fact that things are constantly in flux and changing and evolving on a daily basis. We recorded an episode with Diana Adams of the Chosen Family Law Center in NYC in March 2025 where we spoke about the state of LGBTQ rights at the time. As of this recording in October 2025, where are we when it comes to LGBTQ rights, civil liberties, etc? What is being taken away, and what is currently being threatened? Are rights being threatened more in red states?

5. What does your legal practice look like? Does it differ in a red state from what people in blue states might be asking for or what they are worried about from a legal standpoint?

6. Non-monogamous people don’t have a huge amount of legal rights as it is, but should they be worried about additional rights being taken away just because of their relationship identities? What can they do to protect themselves?

7. There are many unfriendly jurisdictions out there in some of these states. What are some of the  issues that might arise, and how can we take a risk-aware approach to preventing legal problems and mitigating damage when problems arise?

8. Given that no-fault divorce is potentially on the chopping block, what alternatives exist to marriage in terms of creating security and access to the privileges that married people enjoy?

9. When it comes to advocacy and fighting for the rights of marginalized people, how do you protect yourself from getting burned out?

10. Lastly, a listener question: The attorney general of Texas opened an investigation into Discord today, saying: “The Attorney General’s investigation will examine the content on Discord’s platform and its role in contributing to the radicalization, sexual exploitation, and addiction of minors.” My question is: how can people living in red states protect themselves from this type of “thought policing” while staying in touch with communities like this one?

    
    Visit https://chosenfamilylawtx.com/ for more information about the Chosen Family Law Center!

Transcript

If you find any transcription errors, please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.

Stacey: Literally every person that is trans that is in my personal social circle has left the state. It's dangerous here. Texas just passed a bathroom bill that would require public buildings like government buildings, state agencies, schools to require people to use the bathroom assigned to their gender at birth, which is insane and hostile. And we know that there are folks fighting this at every step of the way. Lambda Legal is another organization that really is taking on hard cases and at the forefront of really trying to make a difference. We're trying to work within our limitations and our abilities.

Narrator: Welcome to the Multiamory Podcast.

Jase: I'm Jase.

Emily: I'm Emily.

Dedeker: And I'm Dedeker.

Emily: We believe in looking to the future of relationships, not maintaining the status quo of the past.

Dedeker: Whether you're monogamous, polyamorous, swinging, casually dating, or if you just do relationships differently, we see you, and we're here for you.

Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we're talking about being polyamorous in conservative leaning states with guest, lawyer Stacey McLarty. Stacey McLarty is a Texas attorney who supports individuals and chosen families through affirming holistic legal services. She combines two decades of legal experience with her own lived experience in the non-monogamy, kink and burner communities. She regularly leads workshops on legal and relationship topics and is currently writing legal guides for non-monogamous and kinky folks. Stacey serves on the board of OPEN, the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-monogamy, advocating for visibility and legal recognition. Her practice reflects her belief that all consenting adults deserve the freedom to define love, family, and commitment on their own terms. Stacey, thank you so much for joining us today.

Stacey: Thank you for having me.

Emily: So we were really excited to do this episode because we don't get a chance to speak to people who live in places like Texas, in more red leaning states, and who are doing things to help their communities out in those states. And I would say that the predominant idea that many people have, many polyamorous people, at least in our community and I think generally online, is that it's just more difficult to be non-monogamous in a red leaning state. Would you agree with that sentiment? Do you think that there are things about living in a place like Texas that polyamorous people get wrong, for instance?

Stacey: Well, I agree to some extent. I think it's a lot harder to be queer in red leaning states. And the overlap of the LGBTQ community with the non-monogamy community is pretty high. And so I don't think that it's so much that it's difficult to be polyamorous, but it's difficult to be all of those identities wrapped up in one. And anything that looks different, and I'm putting air quotes around that, looks different, you are more subject to harassment or just not great treatment. But having said that, there are thriving non-monogamy communities in Texas. I'm lucky enough to be in Austin, which is a very blue dot in the red state, but even in the more rural areas, there are groups, organizations, meetups. So I think we keep it a little more quiet here than maybe if we were in a more friendly jurisdiction. But I think that might be what people get wrong is that there are no polyamorous people in Texas because it's too hard. It's not how that works at all.

Emily: Got it. Yeah.

Dedeker: Well, so for you then, I would imagine that there's a certain amount of risk of then choosing to be professionally associated with difference. And I guess I'm curious about your decision to take your professional life in that direction.

Stacey: Yeah, I did not start out as an attorney saying, I'm going to be an attorney for polyamorists and non-monogamous folks. This evolved over a period of time. And ultimately, I think it was in about 2019 or so, I decided that I'm in a really good position. I have a lot of privilege. I'm a middle-aged white woman. I'm educated. I have a professional position. And so I felt like it was really appropriate for me in my circumstance. And also, I have the support of my family. So I'm open about my non-monogamy to my adult children and my partners' families. So I had a lot less risk personally. I had a lot more acceptance personally that I had already experienced. Even in the workplace, when I'm not doing my firm work, when I worked as an employee, I've been pleasantly surprised at how accepting folks have been. And so I've tried to leverage that acceptance and that opportunity to hopefully make things a little bit easier for the non-monogamous or non-traditional folks that are around me. But also, I've volunteered to be everybody's polyamorous ask me person.

Jase: Right, right.

Stacey: I have been told that I'm pretty approachable. And my trivia thing is that no matter where I am in the world, people approach me and ask me for directions. And so I figured, okay, if I've got this going for me, then people are less worried about asking me something that might be offensive or whatever, because I've made it clear that I am OPEN to all kinds of questions, as long as they're respectfully asked.

Dedeker: Once you decided to target your practice specifically to this community, was there anything that surprised you?

Stacey: I think what surprised me was how little legal support there is for people who are non-monogamous or in any other kind of non-traditional relationship structure. And that's actually what got me into this in the first place. It started with people that I knew in my community. Hey, you're a lawyer, you can help me with fill in the blank. And I looked around and very, very few people are openly doing this in the country. I mean, I know you've had Diana Adams on and she's amazing and a real trailblazer, but there are a lot of polyamorous people around that could use somebody that understands the reality of non-monogamy. I may not understand what everybody's situation is, but I know the questions to ask. And because I'm polyamorous myself, I feel like I'm approaching every situation with a little more respect and understanding than maybe somebody who just finds it confusing.

Jase: Yeah, there's definitely a relief being able to talk to someone where you don't have to explain every little detail or feel like you need to justify it. It's like, if you know this person gets it, you can just come in and say, okay, these are my partners. This is my metamour. Here's our setup. And you're good. You can just go on from there instead of feeling like, okay, did you understand all that? Do I need to go back? Do I need to clarify anything? What have you assumed? All that sort of stuff.

Stacey: Yeah. And I think among the lawyer profession, there is a belief that non-monogamy invariably causes relationship problems, leads to divorce and trauma and stuff like that. And I do my best to correct that ignorance when I have the opportunity. But I think it would be very difficult walking into an office and explaining your situation, knowing that the person on the other side of that desk is going to blame your non-monogamy for your relationship problems.

Jase: Right. That's fascinating because I know that there have been a lot of people like Ruby Bouie Johnson who have done trainings for therapists to try to break that assumption because there was also that same problem and there still is with a lot of therapists who still associate that with, oh, you're doing this because there are problems and this is just a thing that happens right before the end or whatever. It hadn't occurred to me that that same bias could be just as significant for a lawyer as well, who's approaching your relationship with the assumption it's not gonna last is very different in terms of how they would treat that or what advice they would give you.

Stacey: Yeah, and my dream is to borrow the work that people like Heath Schechinger have done in that therapist and mental health professional community and bring those concepts over to the legal community. Because people who practice non-monogamy are a significant part of the population. And whether they know it or not, they have clients who are non-monogamous in front of them. And it is more complicated being in a red state where adultery, it's not a crime. But it is a serious issue that could come up when relationships are breaking up in divorce. I've had several cases where even though the entry into non-monogamy was consensual on both parties, that the other person went to some sharky lawyer who said, Aha, let us charge adultery as part of this divorce. And the reason that people do that is because then you can get more of the community property. So money's at stake, and that's why people might be tempted to do that. And so I am hoping that by educating people on consensual non-monogamy, that we can move away from that tendency.

Dedeker: Well, so in that situation where the other person is coming in with a lawyer who's really leaning hard into, oh, we can call this adultery in order to leverage that into getting more of the community property. Then is your task as a lawyer having to build this case about it being consensual? I didn't really think about the implications of that.

Stacey: Absolutely. I have only had a few cases actually have to go in front of a judge and have to make that case. And one of those was in a rural county. And it is really hard building that case where you're showing that, yes, these folks got into this together, and one of them changed their mind. And that is totally okay that they changed their mind, but you can't go back and recharacterize what happened as adultery. And even though that's technically not a defense to adultery, in real life, judges look at the facts and if this was consensual, they're very unlikely to side with the person claiming adultery. And this is where it can be really helpful to have lots of non-legal support. If you have a community around you that knows you and your spouse, or your partners, and can be there for you, if somebody is alleging that what you're doing consensually is something like adultery.

Jase: That makes sense. People to come forward and go, no, no, no, they're part of this community. They're both involved in this. This is consensual.

Emily: Yeah.

Jase: To be able to actually come forth as witnesses in that case, or maybe not in a court in front of a judge all the time, but, just even in the, what would you call that? The negotiating table, whatever, to kind of come in and provide some character witness, I guess.

Stacey: Yeah. And I think also that sense of community around you can head off problems in the first place. If you are feeling isolated, you're much more likely to go off and do something that isn't very good for your community. Whereas if you feel like you're part of a community, I think there's just less likely issues for conflict.

Emily: So if people are practicing non-monogamy in a way that is maybe not as loud as perhaps people in NYC, for instance, or Jase and Dedeker in Seattle, how are people finding community in a place like Texas? Are there any specific tactics that you've seen people take in order to find their tribe?

Stacey: I think prior to COVID, we had a really strong community in Austin, and people would come from different parts of the state, even. We have a polyamory conference once a year, the Poly Big Fun, which is held near Austin in Bastrop. And of course, people use apps like OkCupid and Feeld. And I think a lot of people, it's word of mouth. We find each other at this point and bring people into the fold as we get to know them. When I talk about community, there's the non-monogamy community supporting each other, non-monogamous people and allies, but also being present in our wider community, having people know your reputation as the person who brings cookies to the bake sale and shows up to watch your dog when you need it. Those kind of relationships can also help you down the road. Not only are you being visible in your community, but also people know you, you have a reputation as a good person, and that can always help you if you get into some kind of trouble in the future.

Jase: That makes a lot of sense. When you were talking about finding that supportive community, mostly coming from word of mouth, it made me think right away about the person who's new to this, right? The person who's just discovered our podcast or read some books or read an article and was like, oh, I'm interested in this. It does seem like for that person, it's hard to figure out how can I connect to community. And I think that in certain places like Los Angeles, there's a zillion in-person meetups that happen all over the city. And so you could find something nearby. And I know it's the same in New York. In Seattle, there's a little less, but it's still around. There's still a lot of meetups that you could just find on Facebook or on meetup.com or something like that. I wonder if in red states that would be harder to find, like people would be more afraid of putting up something like that publicly. Or do you find that's not really the case?

Stacey: I think that's a problem that we're still trying to solve, a way that we can be better at building community and also a more diverse and welcoming community. I do think that there is some folks are going to have concerns about setting something up that is any kind of sexually oriented, even though polyamory is not necessarily sexual, but there's that stigma attached to it. But also, in discussions with other people who would like to build more community in our area, one of the ideas that has been proposed is maybe polyamory is more acceptable now. And so people don't feel the need to come out and have a community, especially the younger folks, because they don't need a group. It's just life. And I don't know how true that is. I still think there is value in having organized groups, but I think currently a lot of people are also experiencing that through their other interest groups. There's a lot of overlap between the burner communities and the D&D communities. And here there's a huge overlap between the kink communities and the non-monogamy folks. And so I think there are connections there that can help the new person who's just learning about this for the first time. But also that comes with its own baggage because if you're interested in exploring non-monogamy, you could get the impression that you have to be in kink communities or in the D&D group or whatever your thing is. And not everybody wants to become a burner just because they're interested in exploring non-monogamy. And that's where I've seen those.

Jase: Memes about board games, where it's like, I want to be polyamorous, but I don't like board games. I can't join any communities.

Stacey: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's something that we're working on.

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Dedeker: So to bring things back to the legal side, where you're at today, both geographically, politically, professionally, what are the predominant battles that you are fighting? What are the things that you're focusing on the most?

Stacey: Well, right now in red states, we are not fighting head on battles for protections for polyamorous folks and other non-monogamous folks. We are not out there at the legislature campaigning. What we are trying to do is make things easier for our clients one day at a time, one person at a time, one family at a time. And also, I think there are folks like me who are supportive of things that benefit our community that we're not necessarily the face of. And so anything that helps recognize the role of step parents. Here in Texas, legal parents have all the rights. So anything that allows step parents to be a part of a child's life and to continue as part of that family, even if they're no longer romantically involved, that is something that would help our folks who may be raising kids together in a polyamorous situation, and they want to remain a family, even if they're no longer romantically entwined. So things like that. And some of what I do is try to reduce friction in the world. So for example, a medical power of attorney. My partner that I'm not legally married to is named as medical power of attorney agent for me. That gets him in the door. Hospitals recognize that form. They know what that form means. And so I don't have to, nobody has to explain my relationship. Cause you can name anybody on that form. One thing that I suggest to folks to reduce friction in the regular world, is to have a family last name, change your last name. You don't have to use it all the time. But if you walk into the hospital and your driver's license says, my last name is Jones and I'm coming to visit somebody whose last name is Smith Jones, people don't ask as many questions. There's less opportunity for that negative pushback, that makes sense.

Jase: I've heard similar things with step parents and stuff, where if they share the last name with the kid, people just don't ask as many questions. It's kind of like, oh, okay, sure, you're a parent to this kid, right? This kid belongs with you. Whereas otherwise, if you have different last names, it could be more of a question of like, wait, how are you oriented? What's your deal here? That's really interesting. It makes sense, though, as a social workaround to plural marriage, right? Of this, we all have the same last name. There's at least an association that most people just won't even question.

Stacey: Bingo.

Jase: Like, if I think about when I go through the customs line in the airport, now that if I'm married to someone, they can just go into the line with me. But it's not like they ask for your marriage records to prove that. I'll walk up and say, 'We're married.' Okay, we're together.

Stacey: Well, and it helps. It depends on how you look, because I have heard stories from folks who are in same-sex marriage where they have been asked for proof of marriage, and they literally carry a copy of their marriage license in their wallet. And I think that, gosh, I find that horrific. I don't share a last name with my husband, and nobody asks me for proof that we're married, right? And so, I think it can be situational like that.

Jase: Yeah, that makes sense.

Stacey: I also try and keep people out of the courtroom in the first place. And I know a lot of other lawyers that do this, especially with LGBTQ clients, anytime that we can resolve stuff through mediation, through planning ahead, having a post nuptial agreement when a couple who's legally married is saying, We want to explore non-monogamy. Okay, let's put it in that post-nup document that is recognized by the court. Hey, we are agreeing to consensual non-monogamy. And also, here's our expectations of that. And not everything in those documents is going to be enforceable in court, but sometimes it's the process of talking it out and having those conversations about what if, while we all love each other, what do we think is fair if we were to break up tomorrow? What do we think is fair if we decide to live together and then we decide it doesn't work out? Having those conversations on the front end really does avoid a lot of legal trouble on the back end.

Emily: Yeah, definitely. What kinds of things from a legal standpoint do you see non-monogamous people in your community coming to you for?

Stacey: A lot of them want to, they have a married couple and the married couple has other partners. And lately it seems like everybody wants to go into business with some faction of their polycule.

Jase: Interesting.

Emily: The three people who have done that.

Jase: Did that, yeah, exactly.

Emily: That's really interesting to hear.

Stacey: Yeah, everybody wants to go into business and everybody wants to have their poly commune someday. But because Texas is a community property state, a lot of times you want to make sure that one of the spouses wants to go into business with their partner, the other spouse is like, I don't want my stuff to be on the hook if there's an issue with the business. I want to make sure that my stuff is separate and that, because I'm not going to participate in this business. So in that case, you might have a postnuptial agreement. I have folks who come in and they're planning to cohabitate and they want to know how they can set up the household in a way that honors everybody's contribution and protects folks if they should break up and not have a romantic relationship anymore. And one of the non-legal things that I recommend a lot is a freedom fund, where you have enough money in a bank account that somebody can move out, put a deposit on a place to live. And I think that takes the pressure off of people trying to hold relationships together because the alternative is somebody's gonna wind up homeless or really financially devastated. So having that, it's not a legal solution per se. We also do rental agreements where we talk about how this is gonna work in the household. There's a combination of legal and non-legal problem solving that we do.

Jase: Yeah. So for that freedom fund, is that something where you would encourage the whole polycule to contribute to a fund to help whoever might need to find their own place? Or are you just saying each person needs to have their own bug out bag?

Stacey: I like the concept of a combined freedom fund where people contribute in whatever way is right. And it feels more like if you contribute in a way that is fair and proportional to your income and contribution, it does benefit everyone. Someone who's a high earner, even if they are going to break up with somebody, they still care about that person and they don't want them to be in dire straits financially. So having this means that you're staying together because you want to, not because of housing crisis.

Emily: Yeah. Very intentional.

Dedeker: Yeah. It's so smart and it makes so much sense because I don't know, I think for some reason when I work with people and I count myself guilty in this as well in the past that we are so biased towards either, well, it's going to work out, so we don't need to have those conversations, or we think that money and housing situations don't influence our decisions to stay with somebody. I think I, myself personally, can try to tell myself, 'Oh no, if it's bad enough, I'll just leave,' when that's not the case. It really gets entangled in there. And so, yeah, I do think it's wise for all of us to be aware of that ahead of time and to be thinking about those things and put safety nets like that in place.

Stacey: And it also kind of helps balance if there's a power differential. If you have a married couple and someone who's moved into their home, there's some undercurrent of different power going on there. And having that fund empowers the person who's not in the legal marriage to feel like a full member of the household, that they too have negotiating power and that they can speak out for themselves.

Jase: Yeah, I really like this idea of remembering that there's a lot of non-legal things that we can do that will potentially help when legal things do come up, but also just can help in general that I think someone who is a lawyer has a little bit of a unique perspective on seeing when those things could have helped or what things can be most helpful. So I love this idea of doing that. And so I'm curious, about your practice and how does that look like in terms of advising people on the not legal things to do as well as legal things they might want to put in place, like a power of attorney?

Stacey: Well, and that's where the holistic legal services description comes up. And typically when folks come to me, the first thing we do is have a conversation before they agree to hire me for anything. We're going to sit down and I ask them what are your goals? What are your expectations? What are you worried about? And then we tried and see what kind of combination of legal and non-monogamous solutions can come up. I had some folks come to me and they're like, we need a trust. We want to make our family, you know, we want to show the world that we're a family. We need to trust and I talked to them for a while. And I'm like, if you really want it, I can sell you a trust, but I don't think that that is the vehicle that's going to get you where you want to go. Let's talk about maybe doing a name change and medical power of attorney, and then y'all use the rest of that money to have a really nice party and tell your community that you are a family. Because I think that's going to, it's going to accomplish more of what you want than if I draw up this kind of expensive and complicated thing that doesn't really fit your material circumstances.

Jase: Yeah, I will say I was shocked at how expensive making a trust is. Because I also looked into that of like, oh, yeah, maybe that's a thing I should do. And I was like, Whoa, wait, never mind.

Emily: This is really cool. Interesting. Yeah.

Stacey: That is one of the advantages of being in Texas is that our probate system is not bad at all. And one of the ways that you can declare your family legally is through a will. A will isn't just how you divide up your stuff, it's also a historical document. Now, you would want to be careful to make sure that your partners agree to be named in this historical document. But in my case, I'm able to say, put my partner that I'm not legally married to in the section on family and say, this is my romantic life partner. And he's there in the history of my life. And so that's something that we can do because that fits the law in our particular state.

Dedeker: Well, a question related to end of life preparation. I was wondering if this falls under the umbrella of not-strictly-legal solutions, the practical things. So stuff like going into your bank accounts, investment accounts, retirement accounts, and being able to name multiple beneficiaries. Now, is that something where that's a really easy light lift, where if someone's not ready to full on do the will or the estate planning yet, that's something they can do? Or is that something where depending on your state, that may not necessarily be enforceable?

Stacey: Oh, for the most part, if you name someone as a beneficiary of your 401k, nobody cares who that person is. Now, if you're legally married, your spouse may have some rights to part of that because it's a retirement fund. But yes, that would be fairly easy to do. And I actually encourage people who are financially intertwined to have a joint account. They have their separate accounts, but a joint account. And the joint account could be, let's put something together for a vacation that we're going to take together. We're never going to live together and we don't want to have lots of financial entanglement, but we could have this one thing. So there's lots of ways that you could sort of ease in or not have a huge commitment and still take care of yourself and your partners.

Dedeker: Yeah, I guess that's what I was thinking of because stuff like listing somebody as a beneficiary on an account doesn't require I need to find the lawyer and fill out the paperwork and draft up the whole thing. It literally often in many accounts takes two seconds. You just have to dig through where that beneficiary stuff is. So yeah, and then having the joint account, even if it's not, this is the joint account where we pour all of our money into. It's just like our little date fund or vacation fund or whatever. I think that makes a lot of sense too.

Stacey: Yeah. And the one thing that pretty much everybody can do on their own is you can go to your state's website for designating a medical power of attorney. That's a form that you could go and fill that out today and you can DIY that with no problem. As long as you don't put two people in a blank meant for one person, but you can have more than one person listed. Yeah, it's easy. It's not expensive. You don't need a lawyer for that. I don't recommend that people DIY their own wills. It's complicated and it's easy to make mistakes. So even if you just have somebody look over your will, especially if you're developing something for a non-traditional family structure.

Dedeker: Right. Makes sense.

Jase: Yeah. I definitely found that when I was trying to slightly DIY it or use services that help you do that through a form online and things. I just found myself already getting really overwhelmed by it, both because of the emotional content of it made it harder to really think about those things, but then also just being like, I'm not sure quite what this means or what the consequences of certain things might be. So I did end up going to a lawyer that we met at an event here where she was talking about specifically non-monogamous people's wills and stuff like that. So it was a nice fit, but it definitely cost, like $1,500 or something. It was a chunk of change, but it was worth it to know that someone with experience was helping to guide me, or at least give me answers to questions and help me understand what was necessary, what's complicating things more than they would be otherwise, and what actually happens in our state if I were to die, right? Because that also varies quite a bit by state.

Stacey: Exactly. And one thing that I've talked to folks about is, so they have more than one partner and they want their partners to be named as say co-executors or co-agents in some capacity. And the reason that they want to do that is they want to demonstrate both of these people are really, really important to me. And I want, that's why I want to name them as equals. And that unintentionally can cause headaches because in order to deal with the legal system, deal with hospitals, it's more difficult for them to deal with two people than it is with one person. And also, if there is a difference of opinion, having somebody who can be a tie breaker, if you're the one named, it's not that you just ignore everyone else's input. But if you have a difference of opinion, not having a tie breaker can delay things, make things more difficult until there's a consensus or a legal fight.

Jase: I have also heard some advice to pick someone as your executor who is a person you trust, but who's not your romantic partner. Because they're gonna also be going through the horrible emotional loss of you having just died. And that that might be a lot to put on them.

Stacey: Right. And I tell folks that what you need to do is pick the person who having that job to do, having that task of taking care of your affairs after your death, that is a comfort because they have a role and a thing to do.

Jase: Right.

Stacey: And there are some people that that is the easiest way for them to process what's happened.

Emily: Yeah.

Stacey: And also that's why executors hire professionals to assist them to walk them through it.

Emily: Yeah.

Jase: Well, now I feel extra good that I named Dedeker as my executor, 'cause she would want the control. It makes sense.

Dedeker: I mean, I would want the control.

Emily: But she'd also be sad.

Dedeker: No, but the thing is, yeah. I mean, so I have my own will, but I need to have it looked over and changed, because it's definitely expired. A lot of things have changed. And yeah, because you're not the first lawyer to give that advice, Stacey, about find the person who is gonna be soothed by having a role. And I don't think that's you, Jase. I think that's my sister.

Dedeker: I think I need to switch it to my,

Dedeker: or at least switch, she's in there, but I think I need to switch the order of priority. Interesting.

Emily: I feel like Dedeker would be good at that role and Jase would be less good, but that's okay. That's okay, Jase.

Dedeker: Actually, I wish I could make your executor my sister. I wish I could just outsource it to her.

Emily: There you go.

Jase: Interesting. Interesting.

Emily: Amazing.

Jase: Real quick, before this next section, did you know that you can get ad-free early releases of this show, as well as access to monthly video processing groups and exclusive private channels on our Discord server, all by becoming a subscriber at a sliding scale pay what you can price. If you go to multiamory.com/join, you can read more, get access to that. We would love to have you as part of our community. In the meantime, take a moment to check out the sponsors on this episode. If any of them seem interesting to you, use the promo codes or the links that we have in our episode description, because that also goes a long way to supporting this show.

Stacey: One thing that I've suggested that is a creative solution for folks who are in non-monogamous relationships that maybe they're not super open about, is to have a coming out letter or video, Dear Mom and Dad, Vanilla Family Member, I have named this person in my will because they are very important to me. We have had a relationship for X number of years. They are not a stranger to me. And this coming out letter is not a legal document in itself, but it's another one of those things that can head off legal trouble. Because if your vanilla family members come in and this person who is a complete stranger to them is receiving things from your estate, they will be jarred by that and they may push back and push back legally. Whereas if there's something from you that explains, yes, I haven't felt comfortable sharing this with you, but they're really important to me and I want them taken care of after my death. That makes sense.

Dedeker: Again, just one of those friction reducers.

Emily: Absolutely.

Dedeker: Well, what does your landscape look like as far as the type of professional support that you receive? Because I can count on one hand the number of lawyers that I know scattered across the country who work in this particular field. My perception from the outside is it seems like this could be a little bit lonely because you're working in a niche. And my secondary assumption would be that if you're in a red state, maybe even lonelier. But what's your experience professionally?

Stacey: So being part of the American Bar Association's LGBTQ bar group is really that is home for us. And even folks who would never consider themselves polyamorous, non-monogamy lawyers, if they serve the queer community, they have familiarity with alternate types of relationships, whether they're romantic relationships or not. And so I find that this community of the LGBTQ friendly lawyers is really very supportive and a place of really good ideas. They have a conference, Lavender Law, every year. And I just find that so invigorating and giving me all kinds of good ideas to take back to my clients and knowing who I can call if I need something.

Emily: Have things changed since this current administration has come into office at Lavender Law or at that conference or just in general amongst your peers, specifically in, I guess, the LGBTQ space that are helping out folks who are non-traditional in any particular way or marginalized.

Stacey: Aside from the excess crying, that is one of the things that when we get together, we recognize and honor how hard and sad and frustrating things are. And year before last, I was on a panel with some other folks from red states, and we were talking about being in those hostile jurisdictions and helping our clients and our neighbors and our community members with that experience. And also part of that discussion is recognizing the limits of the law and the limits of what we can do where we are. Literally every person that is trans that is in my personal social circle has left the state. It's just, it's dangerous here. Texas just passed a bathroom bill that would require public buildings like government buildings, state agencies, schools to require people to use the bathroom assigned to their gender at birth, which is insane and hostile. And we know that there are folks fighting this at every step of the way. Lambda Legal is another organization that really is taking on hard cases and at the forefront of really trying to make a difference. We're trying to work within our limitations and our abilities.

Jase: As we're coming toward the end here, we wanted to talk a little bit about what we can do right now, right within this reality, like you're talking about. And then also we have a few kind of more specific questions that have come up through our community or things that we've seen people asking. So I'd love to get to that as we're getting toward the end here. Kind of the first one is just overall, we've talked about several things. We've talked a lot about things to do in the event that one of you dies. But what about when you're alive? What are some things that people can be doing? What are some actionable things they could do with a lawyer or non-legal to help protect themselves in their relationships right now, especially if they're in a red state.

Stacey: Having conversations and then writing down your agreements. I know you guys have talked about the RADAR meeting, and that is a really good tool to use when you're talking about making big relationship transitions, whether that's a new relationship, whether that's moving in together, whether that is deciding that you no longer want to be legally married to this person. I think making those conversations and writing those down are really important. I do think that there are legal documents that are helpful in these situations. If you're living together, having a real live rental agreement, that can be really helpful, especially if things go wrong. Having to evict a former loved one who will not move out is actually really unfun. And then, for people who are legally married, it's a good idea to spell out in a postnuptial agreement or prenup if you're fixing to get married, what you expect with your property, what do you expect with your resources in this changing landscape. And then when it comes to kids, that is the most risky area of all, because anytime there's a problem, you could wind up in front of a very conservative judge whose idea of what is in the best interest of the children, that's just their own subjective experience. But making that paper trail. We've had this person in our household for years and years. We've left our children with this person, and they're a responsible member of the community. And having those pieces of support for your family the way it is and the family that you've chosen, maybe you just more consciously collect that information. Maybe you have a file folder that has positive things from the kids' teacher, whatever. And there are also some documents where you can delegate some of your parental authorities so that that person can go talk to the school teacher. So there are tools that you can use.

Emily: That's great advice. Something specifically that was a listener question was regarding the fact that the attorney general of Texas opened up an investigation into Discord saying that it will examine the content on Discord's platform and its role in contributing to the radicalization, sexual exploitation, and addiction of minors. And so their question was, how can people living in red states protect themselves from this type of, quote, thought policing while staying in touch with communities like ours, for instance?

Stacey: I think this is really hard because I think so much of what is happening from our politicians, our leadership, they're making command decisions that I don't necessarily think are legal in the first place. One of the most frustrating things here is when vital statistics and the DMV were ordered to stop accepting court orders for name changes and gender marker changes.

Dedeker: Oh, yeah.

Stacey: And we're gonna put this on a list in addition to not helping these people. So there is a lot of awful stuff happening that I don't have a great answer for. I think you have to weigh your own individual risks. And the risks of your partners who may be publicly associated with you, and decide what you're willing to tolerate. Like I said, I have a lot going for me in being able to be open about polyamory, to be public, to be findable on the internet for all of these things. Not everybody has that. Not everybody's in that situation. You don't have job protections for being non-monogamous and social backlash could be a really big thing for folks. So you have to decide what risk you're willing to live with.

Emily: Yeah.

Jase: With that question specifically about Discord and that the Attorney General of Texas looking into that, I think it's interesting because Discord, one of the reasons why we like being on that platform more than we like being on Facebook, even though we have communities on both, is that while Facebook was changing a lot of their policies to try to promote free speech, which really means allowing people more hate speech on there, that Discord kind of doubled down on their policy of like, no, these things aren't okay. We will still limit this. And I think that's probably why it's more of a target, because they haven't just rolled over and been like, oh yes, this is, we'll go along with your policies and we'll try to bring masculinity back into the tech industry or whatever stupid shit that Zuckerberg said. But I wonder though about that, where I feel like being in the tech world myself, I see a lot of headlines about which companies have or haven't kowtowed to various demands from the Trump administration, things like that. Do you feel like when you look at cases like this one of the attorney general looking into Discord, that this is something that you often see resulting in, oh yeah, they get everything they want, or is there more of a push-pull to it in that, being on the platforms that are fighting back might be better? Or is it like, no, they're too much of a target. We should be careful there.

Stacey: So, first of all, I am far from an expert in this. And my opinion is mostly that people who are in the political sphere don't understand social media.

Emily: Well, they're too old. Yes.

Stacey: So, I mean, I think there is a lot of, I think there's a lot of stuff that is puffery and for show. And I'm not familiar enough with the risks of the comparative risks of the various social media platforms, but the internet is a big place. And I think that even if pressure happens on one area and it means that it's harder to communicate or it's less safe to communicate, people need the community. We need that connection with other people. And sometimes those people aren't in our geographic area and we're going to find a way. It is unfortunate that it's the target, but it makes headlines.

Emily: Yeah, that's a good point. Often it is sort of just something that this administration is putting out there as, oh, we're gonna do this thing or it might happen, but it hasn't yet. So maybe we can file this one under that as well.

Stacey: Well, and Ken Paxton is also in the middle of a very ugly divorce. And so I think there is the idea that he's putting out things that are gonna draw attention.

Emily: Yeah, weapons of mass distraction. That's a shame.

Stacey: Exactly. Exactly.

Dedeker: How do you protect yourself from getting burned out?

Stacey: I take many breaks. I don't put myself in charge of knowing every terrible thing that is happening. I do volunteer work, sometimes just being on the phone bank, and I have this very limited period of time. I'm able to help this one person with their one problem, and then they go off and live their life. But also I do things like I go outside and I hike and I do those things that are really restorative for me. Touch grass, it's literal. But that's what I need to keep me sane. And sometimes just having a cry break when things are really hard and you can't fix everything. Acknowledging that is important and feeling all of that keeps you from going crazy.

Emily: Yeah. Well, Stacey, this has been so wonderful to have you on the show to give us your expertise on this really important topic, how people can better keep themselves safe in places like Texas and other places where not everyone is as open and kind and loving towards non-monogamous people or marginalized people or LGBTQ people. So we really appreciate you being on the show with us today.

Stacey: Well, thank you so much for having me. I always enjoy discussing these topics.

Emily: Awesome. And if people want to know more about you and your work, where can they find you?

Stacey: They can find me at my website, chosenfamilylawtx.com. And I'm occasionally on Facebook, also chosenfamilylawtx, and under my name, Stacey McLarty, but it's often misspelled. I do occasionally post on TikTok as the Texas Poly M lawyer.

Emily: Oh, sweet.

Jase: Love that. I'm assuming mostly dances, mostly TikTok dances.

Emily: Definitely.

Stacey: Actually, mocktails, like, that's my thing.

Emily: Oh, really?

Stacey: I have a couple of less than professionally developed videos with the mocktails and then just some random legal tidbits.

Emily: Very cool.

Jase: That's great.

Emily: That's a great hook. Yes. Lovely. Well, for all of you out there listening, we have a question that we are going to put on our Instagram stories this week, and that is, are there any legal steps you wish you had taken in order to avoid a past problem? This is one from Stacey. Very interested to hear what you all have to say out there. And the best place to share your thoughts with other listeners is in the episode discussion channel in our Discord server, or you can post on our private Facebook group. You can get access to these groups and join our exclusive community by going to multiamory.com/join. In addition, you can share with us publicly on Instagram @multiamory_podcast.

Emily: Multiamory is created and produced by Jase Lindgren, Dedeker Winston, and me, Emily Matlack. Our production assistants are Rachel Schenewerk and Carson Collins. Our theme song is Forms I Know I Did by Josh and Anand from the Fractal Cave EP. The full transcript is available on this episode’s page on Multiamory.com.